In Re: The Admin "Ban List"

[Conversekidz]

Alright, let me put it a different way.

Unless you are giving AGD money to run the boards, you don't have a say in how they are run. The admins choose to have it run a certain way, and if we want to use it we can choose to play along with the rules, if you dont like that, or you don't think you can follow the rules, they maybe you should just leave graciously.

I'll say it again, if you are really bothered with how AO is run, go and make your own forum, create your own rules, and police it in your own way.


Oh and I thought i should add this. I have been banned before. I swore once in a thread and was banned 3 days for doing it. Ever since that happening I have not custed in a thread. I like being here, and if cleaning up my language means I get to stay, then it looks like that is what I will have to do.

[minimag03]

AGD does own the site, and they make the rules. I have placed several orders with them, including a whole marker. I don't feel that this gives me a right to change the rules of the forum. I do think that I (and all other people that have supported AGD directly) should have some kind of say in the rules of the forum. Ex: I don't know what LittlePaintballBoy did, but if the majority of the supporting SO says that he shouldn't be banned for life, then they should atleast consider letting him back.

-minimag03

PS: Don't get me wrong, I respect the mods

[lather]

Do you think they provide this board as a public service? Its intended to serve as a meeting and discussion place for mag users, in hopes that it will "grow the business." As Kyle said, there is a danger in driving people away. Honestly, AGD needs all the friends it can get right now.

So by that logic it would be best if AGD had no forum rules, to gather up as many "friends" as possible on AO. Next thing you know, you would see Mags in the NXL and NPPL, people trading their 05 speeds and Timmies for a ULT and AGD bearly able to keep up with demand.

Aint gonna happen.


Where any of those who left currently own or plan to buy a Mag? Did they actively contribute helping people who had problems with or teching a Mag? Sounds extremely self-important and presumptious to think that the future of AGD hangs in the balance of a few people that were banned or decided to leave AO.


Personally I would be much more concerned with the direction that AO was headed if folks like Musikman or Black VCG, GT, Tunaman, Coolhand and others were banned.

[Lohman446]

he told me that he was on a 10 day or something like that.... then he made a new name to PM the admin, and for making a new name they banned him for life.... i think they ban your IP wich would prevail over the process of making new user names....

Why is it, everytime this is brought up people seem to forget an important step. LPB was banned, LPB made another user name (a clear violation of the rules and grounds for an IP ban - circumventing a ban) and LPB MADE A PUBLIC POST. He might have got away with it if not for that last part. Noone on here has yet to tell me they honestly beleive that LPB was stupid enough to "accidentally" make a public post while circumventing a ban - they just seem to be rewriting history without a significant part.

[Load SM5]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "nuts are bigger" contest. None of us like dishing out bans. It takes time and a decent amount of virtual paper work. Plus we get the joy of somethimes having someone go all jihad on us, circumvent the ban, email us 50 times and cuss us out, go on PBNation and flame us there, burn lewd shapes in our lawns and shave our cats. All becasue they feel like the rules don't aplly to them. Sound like a good time? I assure you we get a lot more reported posts saying "Ban this guy" than we actually ban. When we try to take into account the the situation behind the offender's offense we get accused of inconsistancy and favoritism. Believe me I don't like bans because I hate making enemies. If people would just follow the stinking rules and not work up a squashing my 1st Amendment rights attitude we'd all get along just fine for the most part. This is a private forum, leave the 1st Amendment at the door, it does'nt apply here.

We post the bans to show people why they were banned and for how long. This means they have no excuse to make another account to come and ask why. And to show you guys that we actually do do our jobs even though we don't parade the accused down mainstreeet for all to see.

[Mike Smith]

"Regardless of the sector, public or private, or the topic of the forum; censorship of the freely spoken or penned word is wrong. "

We all have the free speech right, but we do not have the freedom from the consequences of our "free speech". IOW, you can call Bush a Nazi, and we can ridicule you/ ban you/ smear you for your obvious moronic "speech". {This is just an example, not meant as an indictment, and may not be relevant to your reality}

FYI: Take "free speech" too far and you could be charged, convicted, and executed for being a traitor.

[cledford]

While I think that choosing (or not choosing) a paintball marker based on what happens in a forum is a little silly I have to support the posters message somewhat. I consider myself friends with several, of the mods - Cphil, Rob, Potato - and think they put in A LOT of hard work and uncompensated personal time to make this the best run forum on the web. That having been said I was a little taken aback the other day when I popped in and saw the "banned" thing. Kind of caught me off guard and since several forums of all types are my main form of daily entertainment I was little surprised since no where else I frequent has even gone such a route.

I'm sure the mods have a very good reason for their choice - but with everything going with the company recently mag-owners are becoming even MORE isolated from the mainstream PB community. I think the banned thread might sent the wrong message to anyone new checking the place out. FWIW, for years Tom was striving to turn the PB world into informed, educated consumers who didn't buy into (or just plain buy) hype. As a pillar member of the manufacturing community he couldn't take on the hype mongers himself - so he educated us with the intent that we'd go forth and spread the good word. Well, that kind of backfired and I think in retrospect hurt the company and the owners. We all (Tom included) have the best intention when dispelling myths like rifling, spin, low pressure and closed-bolt - but to a certain extent most of the rest of the paintball world didn't like having their nose rubbed in the fact that they wasted $XXXX bucks on a aluminum tubes or whatever. It is a lot easier on the "psyche" for the average paintball consumer to blame us mag-owners and call us bitter crackpots while siding with all of the other dups who think that their expensive gizmo snake-oil actual does something - then admit the truth. When reading other forums I get the feeling that we mag-owners are *tolerated* not respected - even though we're the best educated, most discriminating PB players/consumers out there. I feel A LOT of people are actually happy with what is going with AGD - the street "word" is that the company has (or is eminently) gone under. To a lot of people who never agreed or liked the AO message what is happening is a sort of vindication for them. Frankly for several years now (my feeling) is that mag owners have been looked down upon. In retrospect I think a lot of it due to this.

In short I think that we've already got a image problem and are often considered "closed minded" because we won't buy into hype and fantasy that other will easily accept (providing enough other lemmings are on the bandwagon) - so the banned thing IMHO might send the wrong message to those who would already question us.

I KNOW this isn't true - just pointing out what someone not so into AGD might think when popping in.

-Calvin

[PBX Ronin 23]

As always, Cal is a voice of reason and moderation. I couldn't have agreed with anyone more. But some members really do not see it that way and that's a shame.

[shartley]

[Glickman]

The "Ban List" looks to me like trouble. I expect it to turn into a "My nuts are bigger" contest soon enough.

I fully dissagree with a lifetime ban on any member that is NOT partaking in a non-paintball related scam or other venture of the like. i.e. LittlePaintballBoy

Thank you,
Kyle

sometimes questionable, yes, but the mods here are very mature, very.



as for free speech, its limited by the facility you are in. while saying "i F8ing hate bush!" might be allowed outside in protests, its not allowed in libraries, because they are allowed to limit free speech. Schools can do the same thing, "F*america" was on someones wristband, and it was removed because of the school. same thing with shirts relating to alcoholic beverages

if you own the "land", you can limit certain parts of free speech.


if you need to get some vulgerness out goto the thorums or red vs blue forums, both are fine.

[Steelrat]

So by that logic it would be best if AGD had no forum rules, to gather up as many "friends" as possible on AO. Next thing you know, you would see Mags in the NXL and NPPL, people trading their 05 speeds and Timmies for a ULT and AGD bearly able to keep up with demand.

Aint gonna happen.


Where any of those who left currently own or plan to buy a Mag? Did they actively contribute helping people who had problems with or teching a Mag? Sounds extremely self-important and presumptious to think that the future of AGD hangs in the balance of a few people that were banned or decided to leave AO.


Personally I would be much more concerned with the direction that AO was headed if folks like Musikman or Black VCG, GT, Tunaman, Coolhand and others were banned.

No, that is not what I was talking about at all. I merely said that it was important to keep in mind that AGD (and therefore AO) needs to be concerned about driving potential customers away. And please don't label things as being self-important or presumptious, as those can be inflammatory terms, and frankly don't apply.

Oh, and by the way, LPB and his father have bought considerable amounts of AGD products over the two years I have known them. Now he is banned for life from AO. Think he or his dad will be interested in buying more AGD stuff? Who knows...

[PBX Ronin 23]

There are certainly a lot of ugly consequences that could be the by product of the tumultous environment that we find ourselves in.

[MicroMiniMe]

Oh, and by the way, LPB and his father have bought considerable amounts of AGD products over the two years I have known them. Now he is banned for life from AO. Think he or his dad will be interested in buying more AGD stuff? Who knows...

Well from what I gathered, LPB not only created a second account to circumvent the ban he posted in a thread to give directions and one other post flaming another member. I think the flame post he immediately deleted, but I think Mods can even read edits/deletes. I'm guessing the ban in the first place was for flaming. So Aegis and LPB can have a talk about actions and consequences and tolerance. If I messed up any of my facts I apologize to those involved. But it seems some things keep getting left out, or lack of interest in rehashing the whole ordeal.

[CaliMagFan]

We all have the free speech right, but we do not have the freedom from the consequences of our "free speech". IOW, you can call Bush a Nazi, and we can ridicule you/ ban you/ smear you for your obvious moronic "speech". {This is just an example, not meant as an indictment, and may not be relevant to your reality}

FYI: Take "free speech" too far and you could be charged, convicted, and executed for being a traitor.

HAHAHA... I thought someone might try and be a comic about this. Thanks mike for being funny. It's ok cause I know that Andrew Marvelle's winged chariot is ever-nearer to you than the rest of the sentient world.

[Steelrat]

Well from what I gathered, LPB not only created a second account to circumvent the ban he posted in a thread to give directions and one other post flaming another member. I think the flame post he immediately deleted, but I think Mods can even read edits/deletes. I'm guessing the ban in the first place was for flaming. So Aegis and LPB can have a talk about actions and consequences and tolerance. If I messed up any of my facts I apologize to those involved. But it seems some things keep getting left out, or lack of interest in rehashing the whole ordeal.

He was banned for having a sig that was inappropriate. Without knowing what was going on, he created a new account to PM a mod. While using the account, he made a post regarding directions to our AO day meet. He may have made another post, but if it was deleted, then he obviously recognized it was wrong. He is also a kid, and frankly, needs to be given a little slack for it. Almost everyone else has been brought back, why the need to keep him out?

You know what is really sad? I had a talk with a lot of people at our AO day, and frankly it seems like no one is too concerned that they have been, or might get, banned from AO.