What will we do to avoid ramping velocity

[teufelhunden]

That's not ramping velocity, that's idiot kids and stupid refs who don't lock down the tourney lock.

That's easy to see.. if someone plays with the thumscrew, velocity just went up. It's harder to detect velocity ramping without some equipment.

[lew]

How do you ramp velocity?! I know its done, but how?! To increase velocity on most guns, you need to physically adjust something, a nut, the tank etc. I'm unclear how a computerchip turns up your velocity?

The circuit board controls the solenoid in an electronic gun; thus, the board can hold the solenoid in the open position longer. The solenoid controls the hammer/ram that hits the valve.
By keeping the hammer/ram forward lonfger, the valve is open longer, allowing more air through, increasing the velocity.

This instance would apply to Intimidators, Impulses, and the like.

[trains are bad]

shockers, matrices too.

[MarkM]

Electronic guns can be made to remotely increase and decrease the velocity and/or shot settings. This can be done via wireless technology. So, a whole team's guns can pass the chrono judges and then be "enhanced" for the game, and be turned back to safe settings after the game. The only way to prevent this would be to have on field chronos.

If a team was found to be using this technology to cheat, they should be banned from competition for a year as a deterent. Make the punishment so severe, that no one would be willing to take the chance.

Although Teufelhunden has already replied in part to this post...why are you rehashing rumours that were from varying sources and actually originated from a stupid rumour that the Russian Legion had ear implanted microphones and were getting information from their camera man who would film all their games (which was used for training purposes later on and was seen to be talking while he was filming...making notes for the video) of course at the time the Russian Legion were using Angels that had the infa red recievers for setting changes to be beamed across form Angel to Angel...very very short distance and alignment needed to be pretty accurate for it to work. If you took your post at face value then new rumours would start. If the background is known then it dissembles your post for facts.
Aftermarket boards can be Bluetooth enabled (if made that way) but since with a Bluetooth device you have to set the receiving device to accept the signal being sent and you have to press buttons each time it is accepted (the information) so it isn't going to happen in real life this isn't to say it can't be done but the steps to do this are long winded and will be very obvious to refs and spectators.

No promoter is going to step up to the plate and make a severe penalty...nearest we got was Jeremy Salms being banned (not for a marker cheat just plain cheating) and that lasted how long before he was back to paintball involved as a coach? Did Chris Lasoya receive anything other than a bit of bad press for the multiple shot mugging he did?

Promoters are too closely linked (or dependant on) to the companies that control paintball, of course that list of companies will be getting smaller depending on who the big takeover is the subject of.

The NPPL was originally set up as a players union to stop the Promoters taking too much of a say in what was done etc, now they are as close to how the Promoters they sought to control/bring into line ever were.

The NPPL have their robot and won't see there is another way after the $ investment in the product. Rule amendments have been annouced in a way that is a way of limiting things however it will bring up players who have no right being in the position to appear as good with the current technology now allows them to be. The main problem is that at least this thread recognises the fact that there is a different form of ramping ...that of a Ramping dwell which in turn increases the velocity...the NPPL and the PSP as the two major sides of the fence cannot agree that there is two distinct types of ramping. I personally think that ramping dwell is an accident waiting to happen but it is definately a case of it you can't beat them join them...in fairness settings are there to be able to limit the amount of dwell that is added and so remain under 300fps. Is a player going to do this? Very unlikely but the fact that they can is why this is sort of being glossed over to allow these settings to be used In the same way there are sttings to dial the bounces out not use that electonic. fault/phenomenon. Ramping shots although very similar to bounce in it's effect is a grey area that is being allowed in the US due to the inability of the robot, radar chrono guns etc to catch the cheats...and even then it depends on which circuit you play as to if it can be used.

Aftermarket and now some stock boards have these settings it is down to the player to choose if they set them in such a way as to infringe on safety or within the tournament/site rules...it is just that some of these boards are more covert in their settings than others...look at the advertising and disect from that what you need to. At least the Speedy chips have been dumped already but then that was stupid marketing to sell an over priced chip that was a cheat from the outset, it has generated the thoughts that all boards that have fine settings are cheater boards, no they are not they become cheater boards when the player alters the settings to get around the rules. Set the boards up correctly and you will have no issues with whichever tournament/site you play at. trusting the players to use these settings properly is another thing altogether. Afterall you can't sue a car maker because someone speeds...they (the driver/player) chose to do it.

The thinking that a promoter is going to grow some balls to stamp on these people is a pipe dream, a nice pipe dream but a dream all the same. Take this to Automags with an RT valve, runaway etc...it wasn't allowed for a long time (these new regulations may change this now) and how often do you see users asking how they should set their Automag to take advantage of this? A lot...is it correct...well no as it is pointed out nearly everytime but people still do it, they have made that choice to set the marker up so it does something out of the ordinary...ok I am going in circles now and this post has got way too long but that is the problem as there isn't a cut and dried answer to this problem all that has happened is that the genie is out of the bottle and the tournament/sites can't decide if it is a good genie or bad or how to effectively deal with it.

[magman007]

shockers, matrices too.

actually, you cannot ramp a spool valve marker in velocity. increasing the dwell does nothing to it. you need to physically up the imput pressure, or the lpr to make the marker fire at any faster velocity.

[REDRT]

Ramping velocity? Guess it is time to pitch the good ol' RT then. Over my chrono at home here that records your shot strings I've found RTs ramp alot. Setting the velocity at 280fps well under 300fps limit, it has increased to +325fps during rapid fire. Wow and it doesn't even have a board. Ramping velocity has been going on for years. Imagin what Zak's suba tanks to the RT does for velocity! I really think by asking the questions and wanting industry change in a major way, we essentually be cutting are own throats to!

[Lohman446]

Ramping velocity? Guess it is time to pitch the good ol' RT then. Over my chrono at home here that records your shot strings I've found RTs ramp alot. Setting the velocity at 280fps well under 300fps limit, it has increased to +325fps during rapid fire. Wow and it doesn't even have a board. Ramping velocity has been going on for years. Imagin what Zak's suba tanks to the RT does for velocity! I really think by asking the questions and wanting industry change in a major way, we essentually be cutting are own throats to!

I hope yours is abnormal... I have heard from others that the largest increase they have experienced was 10FPS - so you chronoed lower. It concerns me greatly if as great an increase as you describe is normal, I hope yours is a fluke. I am not concerend with the people who would chrono at 250 and go up to 300 (extreme example). I am concerned with the people who would chrono at 300 and go up to 350.

[MarkM]

RT's can be made to jump 25+ fps if the input pressure is too high...if the user knew this is open to discussion but it isn't abnormal for that kind of leap in fps.
I jumped an RT after it was used in a tournament where the field limit was 280...I got it to jump to 320, after I showed the user how to do it he managed a 330...he never set his input as high again.

[wageslave]

I was under the impression that with the RT/X-valve, the first shot was always "slow", and you have to follow a certain procedure to properly chrono...

A search on this forum for something like "chrono" and "valve" and maybe "rapid fire" and "shoot down" will result in a lot of threads on the topic.

[Lohman446]

RT's can be made to jump 25+ fps if the input pressure is too high...if the user knew this is open to discussion but it isn't abnormal for that kind of leap in fps.
I jumped an RT after it was used in a tournament where the field limit was 280...I got it to jump to 320, after I showed the user how to do it he managed a 330...he never set his input as high again.

Is that the reason for the 700PSI input pressure on them, and to sidetrack this dicussion, do you avoid "starving" a mag when only using a 700PSI input pressure?

[REDRT]

I hope yours is abnormal... I have heard from others that the largest increase they have experienced was 10FPS - so you chronoed lower. It concerns me greatly if as great an increase as you describe is normal, I hope yours is a fluke. I am not concerend with the people who would chrono at 250 and go up to 300 (extreme example). I am concerned with the people who would chrono at 300 and go up to 350.

No fluke. I've tryed it with more than one RT. But here is the thing. If you use a loose ball to barrel fit the ramping velocity is much less and it stays around that 10fps. My test was done with a tighter bore that I had the blow the the ball though with what I though as minimal force. Also if you tone down imput pressure so it doesn't shot as fast it helps out greatly. Ever notice when you shot the RT it starts out with the balls shooting so far and drop off at a given range, but when you really sweet spot it the balls seem to fly straighter with less drop off? The velocity is climing. The cool thing is when you chrono off it usually is just right where you set it. In reality being my RT is set for 290/295fps outdoor I suppose there has been times I've wapped a player at 325fps and more. I never broke anyones goggles or hoppers. So I guess the stuff can take it.

[MarkM]

Is that the reason for the 700PSI input pressure on them, and to sidetrack this dicussion, do you avoid "starving" a mag when only using a 700PSI input pressure?

It will vary slightly from RT to RT but in general you set the input within the ranges suggested and then start to "play" with it...if you know what you are doing you can jump all of them...if however you have dropped the input enough any leap will be under 300fps.

The chrono "procedure" of how to chrono an RT is a joke and you will pass the chrono 9 times out of 10 using that, do other things..perfectly do-able within a game situation and it will jump. How high depends on how high you have set the input. There isn't a one pressure suits all RT's answer, you have to fiddle and play around to discover where the figures are. Z-Man has covered this in several different ways on his website, some of the changes he has made are shortening of the parts but if you purely go on pressures you can avoid the leap..well you can't stop the leap but you can keep it within the game limits.

[REDRT]

Is that the reason for the 700PSI input pressure on them, and to sidetrack this dicussion, do you avoid "starving" a mag when only using a 700PSI input pressure?

Accually recommended is 600-800psi. Before lvl10 650psi was it for me. Chop city. With lvl10
skys the limit. Normally running at 1000psi.

[trains are bad]

actually, you cannot ramp a spool valve marker in velocity. increasing the dwell does nothing to it. you need to physically up the imput pressure, or the lpr to make the marker fire at any faster velocity.

Why, then, does the shocker get FSDO when the bolt sticks decreasing the actual dwell? And why does my predator board have a feature to compensate for this by increasing the dwell on the first shot, bringing the velocity back up?

Ecockers could also conceivably have velocity ramping through software.

[68magOwner]

i am playing a tourney this saturday, i know for a fact there are multiple markers on opposing teams with ramping BPS and FPS (all of my teams markers are legal, well, mabey a lil hidden bounce here and there, but, legal for the most part) now, the league is trying to crack down on ramping, and say they are going to check markers, but, they have no robot, this means potentially showing chips all the time if you happen to have quick fingers, and even then, there are plenty of chips that appear stock that ramp in BPS or FPS, so, i am interested to see how these rules will be enforced.