What will we do to avoid ramping velocity

[REDRT]

It will vary slightly from RT to RT but in general you set the input within the ranges suggested and then start to "play" with it...if you know what you are doing you can jump all of them...if however you have dropped the input enough any leap will be under 300fps.

The chrono "procedure" of how to chrono an RT is a joke and you will pass the chrono 9 times out of 10 using that, do other things..perfectly do-able within a game situation and it will jump. How high depends on how high you have set the input. There isn't a one pressure suits all RT's answer, you have to fiddle and play around to discover where the figures are. Z-Man has covered this in several different ways on his website, some of the changes he has made are shortening of the parts but if you purely go on pressures you can avoid the leap..well you can't stop the leap but you can keep it within the game limits.

Yep

I like to shoot fast. To keep it in the limits I use looser bore size. Loose some accuracy, but velocity isn't spiking. Want to be a sniper. I use tighter bore and way less imput psi to keep it under. In a game that I can, I use high imput pressure and tighter bore. One thing you can't change is inconsistant paint. Get a sweld one and it will spike the velocity everytime. Murphys law it usually happens at the chrono station.

[phantomhitman]

actually, you cannot ramp a spool valve marker in velocity. increasing the dwell does nothing to it. you need to physically up the imput pressure, or the lpr to make the marker fire at any faster velocity.

i call bs on this one. there is ramping fps for a matrix. i have absolutley no clue how the gun works, or what board-chip they were using, but i have seen a trix first hand ramp in velocity. we were at the chrono and he was consistently shooting between the 275-280 range, he changed settings and then ripped a stream off and it went to 320 fps. He then changed the settings back and consistently shot at the original 275-280. explain that for me?! maybe his gun was messing up?!

[GT]

two issues here:

1. I honestly don't think you see that greater distance fired when upping the velocity 10-20fps. I have a hard time telling the difference bewteen 275 and 295. The only difference I can see is anything lower than 270 and you have alot more bounces. Anything above that, and I would love to see the evidence, is little more than internet kiddie debate.

2. If I am not mistaken, most newer i.e. poorly desgined markers, use first hot shot to counter FSDO caused by bolt stock or a crappy/leaky lpr.

Sorry but maybe someone needs to do some sciencetific tests on what kind of advantge one gets from running 300 v 320fps.

[phantomhitman]

in every local tourney, as well as acts tourney, i have been to the velocity was 285 or lower. i would think the difference between 285 and 320 to be significant, especially if some guy pulls a run through and shoots you 5-6 times. I would much rather be hit by 285 than 320 wouldnt you?
the effect that does abs (anti bolt stick) in trixs (which is increased dwell i believe) also kicks in during ramping velocity.

[Korrosion]

i call bs on this one. there is ramping fps for a matrix. i have absolutley no clue how the gun works, or what board-chip they were using, but i have seen a trix first hand ramp in velocity. we were at the chrono and he was consistently shooting between the 275-280 range, he changed settings and then ripped a stream off and it went to 320 fps. He then changed the settings back and consistently shot at the original 275-280. explain that for me?! maybe his gun was messing up?!

Warning: long post explaining most of what I know about spool valves.
In a matrix with a LPR the recomended way to set the lpr is to turn it up all the way so that the solenoid gets the same pressure that the dump chamber gets. Then use the inline reg to adjust your fps. Then start turning the lpr down until the fps jumps + or - 5 or so with each shot. Then turn it back up a little (1/4 turn)

With the lpr turned up all the way you are ensuring the dump valve fully empties on every shot. As you start turning the lpr down and keep the front pulse the same the dump chamber comes closer to not empting. At the point where you start getting fps jumps the dump chamber is emptying completly on some shots, and almost completly on others. This is what causes the fps swings. You turn the lpr up that 1/4 turn to ensure the dump chamber empties all the way, on every shot.

If you chrono with a front pulse of X, and set the lpr the way I described, then the dump chamber will empty completly with every shot. At that point making X=X+Y will not change anything because the dump chamber is already completly empty by the time X has elapsed.

There are ways to set your lpr, and abs settings to cheat a little but doing so makes you lose overall performance on your "normal" shots.

[magman007]

Why, then, does the shocker get FSDO when the bolt sticks decreasing the actual dwell? And why does my predator board have a feature to compensate for this by increasing the dwell on the first shot, bringing the velocity back up?

Ecockers could also conceivably have velocity ramping through software.

Id assume your talking about something like ABS for the matrixes, anti bolt stick. The bolt sticks because it sits there long enough, and the grease ceases up a bit. by increasing the dwell, it makes the bolt motion more "fluid" and yes, it increases the average fps by a few, but not enough to be considered ramping.

there was a huge discussion about it, flipflops interviened (on pbn) and explained why the ramping velocity idea for the matrix is impossible, at most, if you run a dwell of 40 (your gun will be excrutiatingly slow at this point) that yes, you van get a max of 10 more fps.

you have to think of the matrix and shocker logically. Dumpchamber, pressurized the same every shot... there is no way to make this air have any more pressure, resulting in pretty consistant shots. only way to get more pressure, is to up the reg, and since our regs arent electronically controlled, there is no way to really getmore fps that will matter.

the lpr puts air into the solenoid, which moves the bolt. this air doesnt really get added to the mix, but it just opens and closes the valve. thr faster the bolt opens, the faster the air escapes, resulting in faster velocity. the slower it opens, the slower the air escapes resulting in lower velocity.


do you understand why it is impossible to ramp in velocity a matrix or a shocker?


^^^^^ explained it much better than i could lol

[phantomhitman]

thank you very much magman and korrosion!! i now understand how my dm5 works! then what caused such a high velocity spike on this guys trix? could a bad reg be the cause...maybe creeping up during shooting?
and if will, aka flipflop, says its impossible then i belive him thanks for actually taking the time to explain how the trix works.

[Korrosion]

thank you very much magman and korrosion!! i now understand how my dm5 works! then what caused such a high velocity spike on this guys trix? could a bad reg be the cause...maybe creeping up during shooting?
and if will, aka flipflop, says its impossible then i belive him thanks for actually taking the time to explain how the trix works.

Could have been a creeping reg. There are ways (which I won't post here) to make a trix shoot hotter then at the chrono. They are possible but not going to give good performance.

[athomas]

If you took your post at face value then new rumours would start. If the background is known then it dissembles your post for facts.

I only threw forward a hypothetical situation that could happen.

The example of the Russian Legian is not an incident I even thought about. I actually never even thought about the bluetooth technology or calling in plays by headsets.

I am an electronics system designer. I could easily build or enhance a board that would accept radio transmitted data. This would be a hypothetical scenario of course, but it does eminate from information I did get from someone in the industry. I'm not saying it was done, but it could have been done and could be done quite easily. So, industry has to put something in place to deter it use in the future.

[hitech]

I am concerned that the same "we'll figure it out when it's an issue" when the rumors of its use are already floating around attitude will put us in a very bad spot at some point. I would hate to think, that five years from now we could say, "well ramping velocity, as long as its no more than 30 FPS is ok, because we can't stop people who are already doing it".

I'm afraid that we all already there. The current focus is on bps, but that is only because it is much easier to detect by the average player. It is slowly becoming obvious to everyone that it is almost impossible to ensure electronic markers are following the rules. If we don't do something "ourselves" we may find that the few insurance companies left will stop allowing electronic markers. The situation is out of control. How long it takes to "blowup" is anyone's guess.