NEW Smart Parts Midlevel Low Price Marker

[slade]

Congratulations on the dumbest piece of illogic I've ever heard.

I guess it's stupid and retarded that we pay thousands less today for computers that are light years ahead in terms of performance compared to computers only a few years old. Hell, the first 286 machine in my house set my Dad's company back about $4000 dollars, the first 15lb "luggable" IBM with it's tiny screen even more.

your comparison is illogical. you are comparing current technology with that of years ago. and my award for the "dumbest piece of illogic I've ever heard" goes to adam gardner.

I still can't believe there are morons essentially arguing that paintball should remain an expensive sport....

im arguing that the markers sold should be quality, something an engineer can be proud of, not something a manufacturer can sell to uninformed newbs for a large profit.

Yes, it's true that SP acted like douches. But so has WorrGames and WDP. So had NPS. Do you boycott all of their products as well?

what SP has done is far worse than anything WGP, WDP, or NPS has done (from what ive heard) and they also seem to be less inovative, for the most part. and I refuse to even consider buying a "trilogy" marker from WGP. Go ahead, try to guess why .

unforunitly, thats because you need common sense to maintain paintball guns. alot of newbies buy impulses and shockers not knowing what they are doing. ive had a soleniod go on my shocker (just the o-rings really) but all it takes is a little common sense. Ive had an imp thats like a rock; lube before i play, and ive only had to replace the reg o-rings this month, after about 3 1/2 years.

the only plastic parts is the body shroud. machining a aluminum body wouldnt be hard to do, i thought i saw they it is held in by screws, so it would not be difficult . (although not saying ALL that much, but theres a reason that the military is now using composite bodies in their weapons, ie. xm8)

I'm sure that lack of proper maintenance plays a part in the problems with SP markers, but i have also heard of quality control issues, such as metal shavings left inside the marker, feednecks snapping, horrid ano jobs, problems with the so-called "SFT" (thats a whole issue in itself...) etc. and i still retain my origional stance that the plastic body is to cut costs and hide the poor milling and lack of anodization.

people, stop arguing about how he dont like SP. its a great idea, definitely. AGD couldve, shouldve done this. if we had a gun like the ION, we could backup our sales with the x mag. in fact, we should do that. i hope AGD is hiding something and BAM new AGD gun. congrats to SP for the idea, but congrats for being such dicks for sueing AGD.

so AGD should have made an extremely cheapened, overhyped marker in order to capitalize on uninformed newbies? Go tell Tom Kaye what he should have done, tell me the response you get.

theres an awful lot of conjecture about this gun being low quality for noone having one yet. i hate to say it but those 1500+ dollar guns floating around......im willing to bet they didnt cost nearly that to make. the best case scenario with this gun is its simply cheaper to produce, owing to the lack of machiningnecessary to manufacture. thats were the higher end gun realy stick it to you, is the machine work, especialy on the bodys. take a macro economics class and watch the proff laugh at you when you quote "you get what you pay for". law of diminishing returns here we come.

lets give it half a chance for we call it a cheap piece of crap(wich it very well may be i have no idea....... if it gets god reviews i may next moth though whoop!!!)

and im willing to bet this marker didnt cost $300 to make, just as those didnt cost $1500 to make. where did you get $1500 anyway, though? last time i checked, most very high end markers cost around $1000, i cant remember the last time ive seen a marker for $1500. Back on topic of your post, true i have not shot this marker (most people here havent either) but i am saying that it is low quality due to the past history of SP. a lot of their markers are certainly not high quality, as i have said before. SP seems more concerned with quantity, advertising, and hype than quality and durability. and this is their cheapest marker by far, packed with more features than any of their other markers. this marker NOT being poor quality has... just about nothing supporting it.

oh yeah, and for those of you that are comparing the ion interchangeable body to the mag interchangeable body, remember that the mag body is milled from aluminum and is anodized. the ion "body", on the other hand, is a plastic shell. its just a colorful covering, not an actual body.

You get what you pay for. It sounds interesting, but if it truly performed like a high end gun then SP wouldnt be able to sell shockers and nerves, and they'd end up screwing themselves. I expect performance on par with the low end ICD guns. I certainly don't expect anything innovative.

listen to Steelrat.

[AGDlover]

will someone just give a gun to the top ppl of SP and tell em to play rushin roughlet(sp?) and then things might start changeing lol

I may buy one once i sell my gear just to have so when i got balling if i have to i still got something i dont care if i break

[Glickman]

just ordered one (ninja black)




when it comes, ill have air, paint, a video camera, and a nice big polished butt to wave in the faces of the doubters

[txaggie08]

Like I said when you get into an industry like this, the law of diminishing returns takes over. For those unfamaliar with how our economic system works, the law of diminishing returns states that price increase and product quality vary inversly. For example, Gun a costs 100 dollars while gun b costs 500 dollars. The law of diminishing returns states that gun b is not necesarily 5 times better than gun a (note prices are purely for example......). Go speak to an economisist about this, they can give you a better illustration.

So we arrive at a conundrum. Has smart parts, using cheaper materails and a superior pricing strategy, bipassed the law of diminishing returns. Or is this marker simply crap. Whole point is YOU dont know and neither do I, so the whole conjecture on its abilities and quality is meaningless garbage.You sight the fact there is no evidence to support the quality of this gun. Well I pose the question to you, what actual physical proof is there of the shodiness of it? I dont want generalized conjecture about smart parts, I want the evidence you have that this particular marker is a poor piece of engineering. However, putting the issue of the gun aside, steelrat and yourself are both wrong. Economic principle(and this applies to any industry regardles of size) has proven that in a capatilist, consumerist society, the old maxim of "you get what you pay for" is wrong. I'm sorry, but any reputable economist will explain this to you in painful detail.

[skife]

body kits.....

where ricers meet paintball.

GAH!

[Lohman446]

My thoughts on quality

The spool valve and the solenoid system that SP uses are fairly well thought out.

I think the design abilities of this marker are pretty high and the marker is capable of great things.

I expect to take metal shavings from the marker, have some issue, etc with quality control, the same as most SP markers I have had.

Once over that initial "Repair" I expect this to be a very competetive marker - considering the ungodly rate of fire that some people claim is exagerated, and otherwise unnecessary - I mean, I don't buy that 1/1000 people are legally shooting 20BPS

I expect the reg to be junk and have to be replaced - noting the max-flo systems on the demo markers I expect that the regs there were likely hollow.

I expect to see some serious upgrades for this, think how many upgrades there are for Spyders. I have already ordered the CCM No-Pro feedneck for it.


I'll tell you all next week

[matt-o]

wow, this is interesting, i might need to try one of these out. if it performs really well i might be tempted to sell my angel and get either this or a new BKO since there both gonna be so nice for the price. how do you think they compare?

[magman007]

you all realize that this thing isnt even electro pnumatic right? if oyu look at the schematics the solenoid is baisically a sear tripper for the spool valve. thats baisically what it is doing. interesting to say the least.

[CoolHand]

you all realize that this thing isnt even electro pnumatic right? if oyu look at the schematics the solenoid is baisically a sear tripper for the spool valve. thats baisically what it is doing. interesting to say the least.

No, that's not right.

Its still electropneumatic, its just not a piloted valve. The 'noid acts directly on a three way valve (or five way, whatever you want to call it). Instead of a diaphram pilot letting air in to move the 3way's spool, this one just uses a electromechanical solenoid to pull or push the 3way's spool.

Its a more robust and cheaper way of doing what the Humphrey's valves do. Plus, its a lot less sensitive to liquid CO2, and a lot easier to rebuild if it gets a snort. Its a good idea, and, one which has also occured to NPS (take a look at the 'noid of a Wrath sometime).

I'd say that simplified valve is one of the ways they were able to reduce the production cost of these markers.

[SpecialBlend2786]

No, that's not right.

Its still electropneumatic, its just not a piloted valve. The 'noid acts directly on a three way valve (or five way, whatever you want to call it). Instead of a diaphram pilot letting air in to move the 3way's spool, this one just uses a electromechanical solenoid to pull or push the 3way's spool.

Its a more robust and cheaper way of doing what the Humphrey's valves do. Plus, its a lot less sensitive to liquid CO2, and a lot easier to rebuild if it gets a snort. Its a good idea, and, one which has also occured to NPS (take a look at the 'noid of a Wrath sometime).

I'd say that simplified valve is one of the ways they were able to reduce the production cost of these markers.

Speaking of the Wrath....when did that thing come out!? I totally missed it, it looks sweet!

[Lurker27]

Sweet Jesus let it be AVR compatible.

[tyrion2323]

your comparison is illogical. you are comparing current technology with that of years ago. and my award for the "dumbest piece of illogic I've ever heard" goes to adam gardner.


im arguing that the markers sold should be quality, something an engineer can be proud of, not something a manufacturer can sell to uninformed newbs for a large profit.


what SP has done is far worse than anything WGP, WDP, or NPS has done (from what ive heard) and they also seem to be less inovative, for the most part. and I refuse to even consider buying a "trilogy" marker from WGP. Go ahead, try to guess why .


I'm sure that lack of proper maintenance plays a part in the problems with SP markers, but i have also heard of quality control issues, such as metal shavings left inside the marker, feednecks snapping, horrid ano jobs, problems with the so-called "SFT" (thats a whole issue in itself...) etc. and i still retain my origional stance that the plastic body is to cut costs and hide the poor milling and lack of anodization.


so AGD should have made an extremely cheapened, overhyped marker in order to capitalize on uninformed newbies? Go tell Tom Kaye what he should have done, tell me the response you get.


and im willing to bet this marker didnt cost $300 to make, just as those didnt cost $1500 to make. where did you get $1500 anyway, though? last time i checked, most very high end markers cost around $1000, i cant remember the last time ive seen a marker for $1500. Back on topic of your post, true i have not shot this marker (most people here havent either) but i am saying that it is low quality due to the past history of SP. a lot of their markers are certainly not high quality, as i have said before. SP seems more concerned with quantity, advertising, and hype than quality and durability. and this is their cheapest marker by far, packed with more features than any of their other markers. this marker NOT being poor quality has... just about nothing supporting it.

oh yeah, and for those of you that are comparing the ion interchangeable body to the mag interchangeable body, remember that the mag body is milled from aluminum and is anodized. the ion "body", on the other hand, is a plastic shell. its just a colorful covering, not an actual body.


listen to Steelrat.

Slade, the problem with your posts is that you're assuming EVERYTHING. You don't have any evidence to back it up. No matter one's positiong, pro or con, without evidence an argument doesn't hold.

And, just to let you know, Intimidators can be produced and sold for $350 while making a profit. Does that mean that Timmies are crappy to?

Why don't we all just cave in - "any gun but AGD guns are CRAP because they can't take enormously high input pressures for no real reason, and they utilize competitive marketing and product hype!"

of course, we'll fail to mention the half-naked pictures of Clare Benavides promoting ULE bodies, because when AGD does it, it's okay!!!

[Jackel411]

Okay I caved.. Im a cheap bugger and wanted a new toy... I had the store afiliated with my job as field tech order me up one.. sorta kicked me to know the WS cost of one and not have an SP account or the cash to do up a first time NPS order.. arrrrg....

Any way.. 300 bucks into too bad to test **** with

[poonjar]

Its not the gun for me but I think a gun like this will be good for the sport if nothing else. Now people who want to try paintball can do so with an above average gun for cheep. I know a few people who paintballed once but because their first time they had a bad experience with a spyder they never played again, so hopefully that wont happen. it would be great if feilds start getting them as rentals.

[paintballrulzs]

Alright guys lets focus on the topic here: Smart Parts new gun, not an attack on the company itself. Many claimed for years they boycotted smart parts yet still owned freaks until the past 2 years alternatives have come out. Who cares if you hate the company. You all know if AGD made this you would be dropping to the floor and bowing to Tom Kaye. The gun can do a great thing for our industry. Im looking at getting a new marker myself, and being in college can't afford to drop 1000 ona gun at the moment. This seems to be able to keep up with high end guns. Do the research. The gun isn't plastic, neither is the grip frame. It is definately going to sell like crazy. Ive seen videos and better pictures and Im gonna say Im greatly impressed. This thing seems like it will have no trouble swaying players to look away from higher end markers. Clearly your highlevel tourney players won't be replacing their loysoyas and DM5s, but what about the weekly player who plays the occasional tournament? This should excede the expectations of your average player. There is no harm is making the sport that much cheaper. These could and probably will be rentals. This will get more walkons to the fields without fear of being blown outa the water using the tippmanns on airball fields. I am pretty sure Ill be ordering a black one tomorrow, just gonna keep researching.