NEW Smart Parts Midlevel Low Price Marker

[Python14]

Alright guys lets focus on the topic here: Smart Parts new gun, not an attack on the company itself. Many claimed for years they boycotted smart parts yet still owned freaks until the past 2 years alternatives have come out. Who cares if you hate the company. You all know if AGD made this you would be dropping to the floor and bowing to Tom Kaye. The gun can do a great thing for our industry. Im looking at getting a new marker myself, and being in college can't afford to drop 1000 ona gun at the moment. This seems to be able to keep up with high end guns. Do the research. The gun isn't plastic, neither is the grip frame. It is definately going to sell like crazy. Ive seen videos and better pictures and Im gonna say Im greatly impressed. This thing seems like it will have no trouble swaying players to look away from higher end markers. Clearly your highlevel tourney players won't be replacing their loysoyas and DM5s, but what about the weekly player who plays the occasional tournament? This should excede the expectations of your average player. There is no harm is making the sport that much cheaper. These could and probably will be rentals. This will get more walkons to the fields without fear of being blown outa the water using the tippmanns on airball fields. I am pretty sure Ill be ordering a black one tomorrow, just gonna keep researching.

My thoughts exactly. I ordered a blue one last night. I need a gun that can handle a bit of abuse, shoot paint at a respectable rate with ease, and still leave some money in my account for paint.

[magman007]

Since everybody is getting in on the action, I'll throw my two cents down on the floor, roll the dice and see how they fall.

First, a quote from the review article that jumped right out at me:


Well THAT'S certainly not true... I can think of at least half a dozen quality markers that retail for under $300. So is the point that they can shoot 17 bps? First, I don't really see that as being the amazing part. I'll argue against the need for more than 10 bps 'till the cows come home, but this isn't the place for such a debate. Second, I don't think anyone has thought about the additional expenses that go with shooting 17 bps. Will it work at 17bps with CO2? Probably not. Will it shoot 17 bps with a standard non-motorized hopper? Deffinitely not. So right there you've added at least $300 to the price of the marker in order to achieve the advertized 17 bps. So $600 total. If the marker originally cost $500, you'd be making a total investment of $800. So while someone can look at a $300 marker as think they're saving 40%, they're really only saving 25%. Furthermore, tack on the price of a mask, pods and other equipment, you reduce your percentage savings by buying a lower-priced marker. Yes, a dollar is still a dollar, but certain things have a fixed price. If you consider other expenses associated with the sport, the marker (while most people see it as the highest-cost item) is actually only a small portion of the total cost of playing. Just paint for a year is significantly more expensive, as an example, than the cost of a $300 marker. Especially if you plan to shoot 17 bps!

So, is it an advantage to the consumer that the marker is less expensive? No, deffinitely not. But will consumers THINK that it is an advantage? Absolutely. That's what will sell these markers: The preception that the end consumer is getting a good deal. Can I say whether or not this marker will be reliable? No, I haven't ever seen one, much less shot it. I think those of us who make comments on the reliability are simply going off SP's very poor track record of quality. However, as many people have alluded to with complaints of looks, body design and even brand, there may be factors more important than cost, efficiency and reliability.

I'm not going to try to start a brand war here, but there is no question that BRAND plays an important part in many consumers' decisions regardless of the market. Think about the Honda vs. Harley Davidson debate... I don't care what your preference is and I won't give mine, but to motorcycle consumers, brand makes a BIG difference. Likewise, to paintball consumers, brand is important. Players place their entire identity with a specific style of play, marker type, setup and even the colors they wear. They will defend their brand decisions with vigor. Many paintballers (myself included) have a severe DISlike for SP. Why? I find their business practices unethical. Legal, perhaps, but that's not the issue. So we immediately begin with a negative opinion of all SP products. Might my opinion change if proved wrong? Yes. But right now, I'm skeptical.

Someone stated that if AGD had released the Ion, we would be worshipping it. That's doubtful for two reasons. First, AGD would never make this type of marker. It's not their style. That's why their fans admire them. "Because quality always shoots straight." Yes, it's a catchy slogan, but it has meaning. It means they choose quality and reliability over cost. It's why 'mags over the years have had stainless steel valves. It's expensive to machine stainless. It takes longer and requires more durable, expensive equipment. Only recently did they switch to aluminum. Why aluminum? Because they were finally able to get an alloy that lives up to their expectations of performance. All alloys are not the same simply because their base metal is aluminum. One masterful remark to this fact noted that SP uses "velveta strength" aluminum. I laughed for a full minute at that because it's true. As to the plastic construction being comparable to AGD's carbon fiber grip frames... I'm going to have to disagree. Yes, the carbon fibers are encased in polymer that could be termed 'plastic'. Glocks are technically 'plastic' too and we've all heard of their legendary reliability and performance. Just as all aluminum alloys are not the same, all plastics are not the same either. So, AGD would never produce the Ion and I think that's a bit of a moot point.

Second, if AGD did produce the Ion, I doubt anyone would be worshipping it. Sure it might receive a few nods that it would not get with SP, but that's because we expect high quality from AGD. We expect low quality from SP. By and large, however, I think AGD's following would be very disappointed if they released an Ion-like marker. AGD has always carried only a few models of marker and has produced them using quality, durable construction. As their slogan suggests, quality is more important than anything else. For AGD to produce an Ion-like marker, it would indicate that they had given up their commitment to quality. They would have 'sold-out' and it would be a real disappointment to me and many others.

Lastly, a word to all electro-toting 17 bps lovers: we like mechanical markers for two reasons. First, they are preferred because they are reliable and keep us confident in our equipment. Second, using a mechanical marker is a form of 'protest' to the path the industry is going in. You may say that electronic markers are reliable. Sure. After you get it wet? Maybe it's a well-protected electronic marker, but good ol' H2O will destroy it. Sorry, that's just not my style. Yes, I take care of my equipment and I doubt I would ever NEED its resilient properties, but I like that it's there. I'm never going to put 3k psi to my mag's valve... but I like the fact that it's durable enough to handle it. I like being able to buy an ill-cared-for second-hand mag that's 10 years old and never had the seals replaced once, gas it up and shoot it like it was new (well, almost new). And yes, I've done it as I'm sure many people have. And it worked like a charm. Did it shoot 17 bps? No... but it was quality, which is more important both to me and many people.

In summary, you have to ask yourself, is quality more important than price? Do I want something reliable or cheap? Am I going to play for a year or two and then hang it up or will I play for a long time? Will I still be shooting this marker in 10 years? If you're a budget-conscious kid that wants to play for a few years then quit; who wants to try running before he can walk; and doesn't care about brand loyalty or what any respectable paintball player would say to someone who uses SP equipment... Then get an Ion by all means.

As a proud owner of AGD, CCI and especially ICD equipment, I do not buy SP products (not even the freak set). I will encourage any prospective customer to steer away from SP. I do not trust the Ion and you will never see it or any other SP marker in my hands. That's my personal choice. Feel free to have your own opinions, but I stick by mine.

sorry, but you are completely off base with the electros and water comparison. Dan voils submerged a viking and it fired underwater for 12 minutes, untill the ram fuilled up with water. Bob sandifier submersed an angel, dried it off, and it still functioned. my e-mag i could do what ever the hell i wanted to, and it would still fire rain or shine, my matrixes? couldnt give a damn about water...

[Steelrat]

What we fail to argue is where people weight their values with the facts.

Ugh, the two-tone vikings.

[GT]

Ugh, the two-tone vikings.

my point was to shoot down vikings or excals, I will own and excal some day. If you read through the whole thing there might be something worht while in there.

gt

[Steelrat]

No, because a lot of players, myself included, are idiots and will pay extra money for fancy milling, annodizing, to use what Dynasty/Strange use, because it says Dye on it, because AKA made it, or for whatever stupid reason even if it has nothing to do with actual performance - the ability to put paintballs on your target.

They may loose a few Shocker/nerve sales... and gain a few sales from Timmies/DM5s/etc. but they are betting (I think correctly) that the arrogance of tournament players who would have bought high end markers will show through and they will buy them anyways.

I'm sure some tourney guys will buy them, but I still think that the gun was specifically designed to capture the low-end market. SP would not pump resources into a gun they intended to compete with their own shocker and nerve.

And there will probably be plenty of markers that still perform better than it does. There does not seem to be anything innovative about the Ion's design. What IS innovative is that they took that design and figured out a way to get the costs down so dramatically.

BTW, one of the big selling points of the Saturn Ion car is that you can put colored plastic pieces on the outside of the car to customize it. Isnt that an odd coincidence?

[Steelrat]

my point was to shoot down vikings or excals, I will own and excal some day. If you read through the whole thing there might be something worht while in there.

gt

Dude, I did read the whole thing, and I agreed with it. I just always found the two-tone viking issue to be entertaining, since its hilarious to see a $1300 gun with parts that dont even come close to matching. And this is coming from a major AKA fanboi. At no time did I think you were making a dig. In fact, you never even slammed the design, you just said you though the BKO did the same job for less, nothing wrong with that.

Maybe I should have tossed some sort of smiley on there to make it clear that I was lamenting the poorly-annoed vikings?

[Lohman446]

I'm sure some tourney guys will buy them, but I still think that the gun was specifically designed to capture the low-end market. SP would not pump resources into a gun they intended to compete with their own shocker and nerve.

And there will probably be plenty of markers that still perform better than it does. There does not seem to be anything innovative about the Ion's design. What IS innovative is that they took that design and figured out a way to get the costs down so dramatically.

I'll agree on the second point - the only innovation here was to make a cheap Shocker in function. And I know a lot of tourney guys won't buy them, because they will get labeled a NEWBIE gun... I don't think that lack of buying though will be due to the lack of the markers ability to perform in tournament situations, if it is as good in fuction, or close, to what the Shockers were.

Yes, I expect first run issues, after all it is an SP marker and iI have dealt with them in the past. I do expect quality control issues from past experience. I do not agree that this was rushed development - I think SP learned that lesson on the Shocker SFT - the Nerve did not have near the problems early Shockers did if I recall. I think SP has jsut been keeping this underwraps, very well, until they were ready to ship. As for SP competing with itself - I flat out asked someone when ordering a Rebound Shocker at SP why the Nerve was better.. they flat out told me it really wasn't. I would not be surprised to see the Nerve go quietly into the night, I expect that SP is not happy with the sales on it. I would not be suprised to see the Shocker drop to about $600 - so people may move up to it for the "all metal" construction from the Ion. That wuold still leave SP with there "team" and aftermarket Shockers to compete in the $1000 price range.

In the end.. I think the days of $1200 paintball markers are drawing to an end - I think in the next couple years companies will price adjust there flagships down - like the 05 Superstocker or whatever that WGP thing that looks amazingly like last years Karnivore did.

[SlartyBartFast]

Yes, I expect first run issues, after all it is an SP marker and iI have dealt with them in the past.

Every manufacturer has "first run issues".

Even the Xmag had problems....

[PumpPlayer]

sorry, but you are completely off base with the electros and water comparison. ... couldnt give a damn about water...

First off, no need to quote the ENTIRE POST. Wow... just the part you want to talk about. But aside from that, I'm sure electros are submersible. You'd be crazy to spend $1200 on a marker that the manufacturer didn't even have the common courtesy to seal the sensitive electronics with a simple neoprene or buna-n seal. After all, submarines have plenty of electronics on them, right? But that's not my point... I'm just pointing out the fact that you're putting additional components onto the marker than have a chance of failure (no matter how small). All other factors the same, simplicity is more reliable. You can't really argue against that. If there's less to break...

In a nod to the e-mag, it has a mechanical override. Funny how no other electro has one of THOSE nifty little features...

[Lohman446]

First off, no need to quote the ENTIRE POST. Wow... just the part you want to talk about. But aside from that, I'm sure electros are submersible. You'd be crazy to spend $1200 on a marker that the

In a nod to the e-mag, it has a mechanical override. Funny how no other electro has one of THOSE nifty little features...

We are not discussing a $1200 marker (though the Viking example was brought up) we are discussing a $300 marker. And that mechanical override is a pain - most of those using that marker for tournaments no longer have that feature available - I know I did not when I was playing PSP.

[Steelrat]

In a nod to the e-mag, it has a mechanical override. Funny how no other electro has one of THOSE nifty little features...

Much as I like that mechanical mode, I can't help thinking that was a design compromise, not a design feature. In a perfect world, a system like the devilmag, using a smaller solenoid, smaller battery, and a ULT seems like a better idea.

[dj89]

What would you HONESTLY say if AGD released this gun?

First off they wuld not. But if they did i would call it trash and i mighte even quit paintball

[Lohman446]

Just a thought.. these have plastic covers, as in covers that people will be able to custom dye themselves at home when clear/white ones are released

[Ydna]

Man people here are answering their own questions about SP cometing with itself. I can tell you becuase I know, this gun does not cost much less to produce than the Shocker, or Nerve. I of course can't give out specific numbers but you gotta know, the Nerve doesn't even cost more than the Shocker. It's all markup, just like all those other competing manufacturers' products.
The Ion has less parts overall, however the cost for materials as we all know isn't a concern.
But SP isn't going to purposely trash their Shocker sales like some people are inferring. That simply makes no sense. Hell, even the negative SP stereotypes are that they only care about money.

It is clearly not advantageous to buy the Ion instead of the Shocker becasue of performance. You get better efficiency, speed, consistency, and who knows what other adverbs with the more expensive guns. It's not designed the compete with the Shocker at all. Although there are a number of professional teams that will be using the Ion, it is true that the gun s geared for the netry-level market. Remember, the Impulse was discontinued becuase of this gun.

Since somebody mentioned the Nerve, yes it is true sales were not so how when the MSRP was $1200. However as a result it was dropped to one thou and things are much better in the sales dept for the Nerve. Just the way it turned out. (though you can still see people trying to sell used Nerves for $1100)

[Lohman446]

It is clearly not advantageous to buy the Ion instead of the Shocker becasue of performance. You get better efficiency, speed, consistency, and who knows what other adverbs with the more expensive guns. It's not designed the compete with the Shocker at all. Although there are a number of professional teams that will be using the Ion, it is true that the gun s geared for the netry-level market. Remember, the Impulse was discontinued becuase of this gun.

The only thing, IMO the Nerve had going for it was the ramping board. I was prepared to order a Nerve, had called SP to do it - when they told me Shockers were available with ramping boards - ordered a Shocker (I had one and liked it).

The Ion is not going to be as fast as the Shocker I agree- but I can't shoot +17BPS anyways and depend on ramp to get to 15BPS, so this marker in speed works for me

The Ion is not going to be as consistant as the Shocker - I agree but expect it has to do with that reg (which I expect to suck) - a good reg and barrel on that Ion and I think you will get acceptable consistency

Efficiency, agreed again but I expect a mod in the near future from someone. Then again, does efficiency really matter to me, it will be more than enough to empty my harness from what the sheet says.

I liked my Shockers, I sold them both to buy a DevilMag, I like this marker as a replacement and a backup and am very glad to see it.

Obviously I'll know more next week - I think I'm going into this with realistic expectations in performance. The Hype may hurt SP though if anyone fully beleives it... the Shocker isn't even all they hype it to be, and the Nerve, IMO even less so.