Crown Point Barrel Discussion

**Vegeta** · 01-11-2002, 03:52 PM

A few comments Tom....

1) That was not good. It was smart, but not cool. It was an expiriment, a test, and I undersatnd that, but you could have just lost alot of peoples trust. When you post questions or descriptions of new products, some people will think "Is he testing us again?" I do understand that companies have to test the marketing waters now and then, but doing that to your trusty AO is risky.

2) Some of us thought you had gone insane. Verdict still pending on that one.

3) We desreved it. Well, no we didn't, but basically you kinda of did to us like what the "got hit by superbolt" kid did to you. I'm not sayign you lied, I'm sure all that you said was true, but it was a kick in the face. Now, all of hte sudden, trying to market a 10 year old barrel like it was brand spankin new and the best in the world.

4) Your fellow followers may have thought this was hte best thing and spent 20$ that they could have put toward soemthign they really needed, like a warp, a new gun, skitz pills.. etc. I'm not saying that 20$ for that thing isn't worht it.. it is... but still. You could have mislead soem people.

Well.. You didn't do anything to me.... No mag = no need to buy barrel for mag. I thought your advertisign was odd.. but thats all. Some mag owners might feel like they are not informants anymore, but tools.

Just my unbaised, egotistic opinion :).

**Minimag4me** · 01-11-2002, 04:13 PM

i have noticed a lot of you are really toms sheep

Example:

BonesisaGod lies and everyone gets mad and yells at him and such. His lie affected the company but not the general public/consuemers. The company isnt yours(exception=tom) so you have no right to be mad(Unless you payed the 90 cents to ship your superbolt back). Tom does.

Tom Kaye lies and everyone just waves it off just because its tom. Toms lie may have affected some of the general public so we(general consumer) should be mad right? Not according to majority of the people here because he is tom!

(i dont support what BonesisaGod or AGD did im just making a point about sheep)

**MantisMag** · 01-11-2002, 04:35 PM

i don't quite understand what you guys are saying in these last couple of posts. did you read tom's first post on this thread? anybody who ordered the crown point had the option to get their money back. also this only went on for a single day. everybody who's pissed acts like this went on for a long period of time. the things he said were NOT true. he was obviously not trying to dupe everyone because he offered them their money back. of course some people want the barrel anyway because it's cheap and it's decent even though it's not what he said it was. those people were given free parts kits with their barrels. so nobody was hurt by this.

some people have lost their trust in tom. maybe that's close to what he wanted. maybe tom doesn't want us all to just go along with whatever he says. tom said that back in the 80's when he was selling this barrel he actually believed a lot of the things he just told us. well he was wrong. that's right. tom kaye was wrong. tom kaye can make mistakes. i think that if he made a mistake now and told us about it he wouldn't want us to sit here and tell him how great it is. i think he would want us to say "uh... tom, that doesn't sound right i think you better take another look at that." question everything you hear. even from tom. cause nobody can be right all the time.

however in terms of tom betraying our trust and misleading us, no. he was not trying to sell us these barrels and take advantage of us. some people just don't seem to be able to grasp the facts that this only lasted for a day before tom came clean and that nobody lost their money. no AO members were harmed in the making of this test. any damage done was not caused by tom but by your perceptions of these events.

**Minimag4me** · 01-11-2002, 04:50 PM

I didnt buy the barrel, i didnt lose any thing. i know and agree with MantisMag but i still dont like the fact of being delibertely lied to. i do it too but im not perfect, i do try not to on the forum though. I just believe everyone is being like sheep and giving Tom a big pat on the back for something negative he did even if there was no harm. Sometimes coming clean the next day isnt enough.

Example:I killed someone but i brought him back to life. Would everyone congradulate me and say it was a good learning experience? Would it be wrong in the first place? NO harm no foul right?

(i know this doesnt have anything to do with tom, it was the first negitive thing i could think of)

Vegeta: i just realized i kinda copied your example with the superbolt kid, sorry

**hitech** · 01-11-2002, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by MantisMag
He was not trying to sell us these barrels and take advantage of us.

An important point to remember. I didn't like being used, but getting "free" stuff cured me of that.

**Butterfingers** · 01-11-2002, 04:53 PM

Ther is a diffrence...

Originally posted by Minimag4me
i have noticed a lot of you are really toms sheep

Example:

BonesisaGod lies and everyone gets mad and yells at him and such. His lie affected the company but not the general public/consuemers. The company isnt yours(exception=tom) so you have no right to be mad(Unless you payed the 90 cents to ship your superbolt back). Tom does.

Tom Kaye lies and everyone just waves it off just because its tom. Toms lie may have affected some of the general public so we(general consumer) should be mad right? Not according to majority of the people here because he is tom!

(i dont support what BonesisaGod or AGD did im just making a point about sheep)

Tom's "lie" didnt cost anybody money in the long run, he offered refunds. no harm done. Bones made AGD loose lots of money and turned it into a legal issue there is a HUGE diffrence there.

**Butterfingers** · 01-11-2002, 04:57 PM

some of you guys gotta calm down you make it out like Tom had an intention of deceiving you for motives other than stated. I still trust Tom because I know his intentions. If tom actually tried to deplete his stock of those barrels by lying to us then I would be pissed. It wasent, it was a learning experience for all of us.

Its like you never had a joke played on you by your friends. I really didnt think it was a big deal.

**Minimag4me** · 01-11-2002, 04:59 PM

The deliberate not telling of truth(lie) occured in both cases. It still is not morally correct(im not saying i never lie, i can hear you all scream hypocrite).

A lie is a lie.

edit:I understand what your saying but i dont need to calm down im just expressing my ideas on the matter(its what tom wants)

**Butterfingers** · 01-11-2002, 05:05 PM

So you mean we are never allowed to make jokes???

So that time when I told my friend his car was being towed away... Forgive for I have commited a great moral evil!!!

What counts is what he INTENDED to do. I intended to play a joke on my friend. Tom inteded to teach us how easily we can be decieved by marketing.

**strongboy2005** · 01-11-2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Tom, that was the best impersonation of Smart Parts iv'e seen to date.

DONT EVER DO THAT AGAIN!!! :) You scared the crap out of me.

what happened?

**Minimag4me** · 01-11-2002, 05:30 PM

lets not get in a big arguement, but when you told your friend his car was being towed did you write two page long letters using common marketing techniques to make him buy your car. Tom basically told us all we know about bore size is a lie so buy his product to fix everything. Tom didnt intend to teach us anything he intended to win a bet that not everyone is a sheep but you are right he did what he intended.

If i were to blow up that car you were telling you friend that was being towed, i did what i intended. Does that make it right?

Just remember sometimes jokes are cruel and can hurt people.

**MantisMag** · 01-11-2002, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Minimag4me
Tom didnt intend to teach us anything he intended to win a bet that not everyone is a sheep but you are right he did what he intended

i disagree somewhat. his main intention may not have been to teach us a lesson. personally i feel that teaching us was a secondary goal. the main point wasn't a bet. not really. sure someone else brought it up and he wanted to prove his point to them but it was also to reassure himself. haven't you ever had someone say that what you believed is wrong and afterward you wondered if they might be right? did you go and check just to make sure? it's obvious that tom spends a lot of time on these forums. he needs to know just how much weight to give what he reads here. that was the real reason for this. can you imagine how worried he was during those first posts? the early posts all jumped on the crown points. it was a while before the dissenting opinions started to show up. probably there was a pause while they tried to figure out what was going on.

then after some well respected people here on the forums started to post that tom had gone mad or was overworked or was abusing glue we start to see the majority of posts wondering what is going on. toward the end there are very few who say they are going to actually buy the crown point or if they do they state their reason as being the price. imagine tom's relief as his trust in these forums is validated. we do not blindly follow him. we will not fall for the ploys he used. THAT was the true purpose to the Crown Point Affair.

**Oregon_pb_** · 01-12-2002, 01:34 AM

If we order the CP barrel right now do we still get the parts kit free?

If so i'm gunna order 2 probably, 1 to practise drilling, and second cause my emag currently doesn't have a stock barrel if i sell it w/o the freak.

**Wild_Osiris** · 01-12-2002, 06:45 AM

I for one am happy Tom did this. Not for his or even AO's accord, but for the sake of him posting it first. I orginally thought about posting about Fanaticism to the point of arrogance! There is no better example then my current local shop owner. A few years ago (to him) mags and cockers were it. This was in 97, 98/99 came around and then it was shockers and angels. 2000 hits and now it's the unbelieveable priced impulse. Finally it has come back to cockers. A complete three sixty I say. He says mag's are (dare I say it) garbage! I talked to him and asked what he thinks about an emag, he said it's a piece of human feces. That it breaks paint leaveing piles of fecial matter in the barrel. I asked him what about the eye they're going to put. "mags hit balls to hard" (says he). But a cocker now that's the gun. I shot it and was very impressed.

Guess what I am now a cocker owner and maybe for the first time my mag just might not be my first, it may be a good back up. This isn't to say I hate mags. I just took Tom's and budd's advise." buy them both". Well I might be getting off topic here. so...

Looking at this mag forum was really starting to depress me. People were following the mags like a cult. Everything the leader said people would follow with few opposition or exception. I admit for a time I was sucked in to it. But this forum started to turn and be snobbish. (like the kinda of guys that have there fingers up there nose and say hmm Yes. aka monopoly guy). It was my mag mag mag mag mag is the best. Great you should feel proud of your maker but to say it kills or is overall the better gun out of all the others is a fallacy. (Illogical statement) I mean people would come here and ask which gun should I get and man the swarm would quickly rally saying "to get the mag".(in nearly any case). Then I would feel the worst of aura's from this place.(one that said were not like other forums we dont dicrimate).

In conclusion I think with the addition of many new people to this forum we see alot of mag men (simular to a yes men). I am sorry if this is harsh, and here again I am spreading fallacy's.(Ironic?) It's just the way I have come to feel about this forum. They have a family bond that maybe shouldnt be as strong. I do see feeling sorry for Tom when he was almost in trouble with that superbolt incident. I atleast felt sorry and it angered me but, I never yelled at that kid. My wisest manager told me yelling never gets anything solved. So Tom I am glad that you tested us. (also note to some people this is not oh wow! Agd is being truthful about there products what a great company! Just so I dont have to hear that.)

**rhetor22** · 01-12-2002, 08:32 AM

i think some one spiked the coke.

Crown Point Barrel Discussion

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