"You can run the xvalve on Co2"

[Scott Hudnall]

I used CO2 without problems at all on my first mag....used a benchmark exp chamber and bottom line set up....not remote.

BUT.....I do vividly recall the first tournament I played in AFTER switching to N2 on that same 'mag.....wow, the difference was amazing.

[SpecialBlend2786]

check it. an Odyssey o2 frozen solid and still going...

VIDEO : http://odyssey.tv/products/markers/o2/hardcore02.avi

[CoolHand]

You can use CO2 on an Xvalve, but it doesn't work very well.

I shot my EMag on CO2 for a while, with two regs, antisyphon, etc. and it never froze up, you just couldn't wail on it either ('cause it would shoot down).

Is it a good idea? Not really. Will it cycle the marker? Yes. Will it cause it to explode/not work ever again/melt/plug up? No. Will it freeze if you let the liquid get in? Yes. Is CO2 corrosive? No. Is CO2 a horribly dirty gas? No more than any other bulk industrial gas.

Pressure is pressure is pressure is pressure. As long as you can reliably provide ~600 psi to the valve, it will cycle. Be it CO2, N2, HPA, He2, H2, O2, Ar, etc, etc, etc (though some of those would be poor choices for various reason, being explosive and whatnot ).

The big problem with CO2 is that it really wants to be a liquid at 600 psi (at all but pretty warm ambient tempuratures). So, by the time that its got enough umph built up to cycle the valve, it is all but ready to change phases. When it starts to flow, the pressure drops and you get shootdown, and freezing, both of which are undesirable (not damaging, but not useful either).

I just get tired of hearing from the chicken littles who preach doom and gloom when CO2 is mentioned. It won't kill anything, but it likely won't work very well either (if you just screw it into the ASA).

That is all.

[WARPED1]

I used a Tippmann 68 Special on Liquid CO2 many years ago. It was a very consistent and accurate marker. I believe some Sterling pumps work well on liquid CO2 as well.

I've been using CO2 (non-liquid :)) on a Classic for 1 1/2 years, and have not had to replace the o-rings yet. I just use an anti-siphon tank and expansion chamber.

The 68 Special was designed to run on liquid CO2. You were supposed to use a Siphon tank. Like the Montneel Z1.

[SAW]

Pressure is pressure is pressure is pressure. As long as you can reliably provide ~600 psi to the valve, it will cycle. Be it CO2, N2, HPA, He2, H2, O2, Ar, etc, etc, etc (though some of those would be poor choices for various reason, being explosive and whatnot ).

Oh, man. Hydrogen powered marker...
"Go out with a bang."

[CoolHand]

Oh, man. Hydrogen powered marker...
"Go out with a bang."

Indeed. You get the idea though.

[NoForts4Me]

The 68 Special was designed to run on liquid CO2. You were supposed to use a Siphon tank. Like the Montneel Z1.

Yeah, I was digging in my storage shed a few months ago and found the old 20oz Siphon tank I used on that gun. Went out of hydro in 1996, I believe. It clinks like a bell when you shake it. The gun didn't shoot very well without it. It was not uncommon for the gun to shoot snow, but it never missed a beat, and didn't care what the temperature was. I think it needed the liquid because it had to cycle so much mass. The hammer on that gun was heavy.

[trains are bad]

Coolhand, thank you for injecting a breath of sense into this thread.

The main reason CO2 doesn't work well on mags is that they are high pressure markers. Simple as that. You will never get a valve that works best at 800+ psi input to run well on CO2.

I ran a retrovalve on anti-siphoned CO2, with an expansion chanber. It worked, in a way. Shot several tanks through it before I could switch back to HPA.

[WARPED1]

Use argon!

[GT]

Well, I suppose I could simply quote Tom from 1996, when he stated with authority that the new RT valve cannot be used with Co2, due to the too fast recharge rate not allowing liquid Co2 time to phase to gas.

Or, you could do an easy search for my impromptu test on my MiniMag, when I swapped the Classic valve for an Emag valve...and just for excitement and "what if"...I hooked up a 20oz tank to it, and promptly froze it shut in less than 6 shots.

Or, you could take Daysprings word for it.

or we could post the truth

You can use CO2 on an Xvalve, but it doesn't work very well.

I shot my EMag on CO2 for a while, with two regs, antisyphon, etc. and it never froze up, you just couldn't wail on it either ('cause it would shoot down).

Is it a good idea? Not really. Will it cycle the marker? Yes. Will it cause it to explode/not work ever again/melt/plug up? No. Will it freeze if you let the liquid get in? Yes. Is CO2 corrosive? No. Is CO2 a horribly dirty gas? No more than any other bulk industrial gas.

Pressure is pressure is pressure is pressure. As long as you can reliably provide ~600 psi to the valve, it will cycle. Be it CO2, N2, HPA, He2, H2, O2, Ar, etc, etc, etc (though some of those would be poor choices for various reason, being explosive and whatnot ).

The big problem with CO2 is that it really wants to be a liquid at 600 psi (at all but pretty warm ambient tempuratures). So, by the time that its got enough umph built up to cycle the valve, it is all but ready to change phases. When it starts to flow, the pressure drops and you get shootdown, and freezing, both of which are undesirable (not damaging, but not useful either).

I just get tired of hearing from the chicken littles who preach doom and gloom when CO2 is mentioned. It won't kill anything, but it likely won't work very well either (if you just screw it into the ASA).

That is all.

we'rd

[SlartyBartFast]

The big problem with CO2 is that it really wants to be a liquid at 600 psi (at all but pretty warm ambient tempuratures).

And someone else can try and find the exact quote from Tom Kaye, but THAT'S why you shouldn't run CO2 in an Xvalve.

The rapid charging of the dump chamber can easily cause a phase change of the CO2 from gas to liquid regardless of how well the CO2 is regulated.

The liquid in the dump chamber will cause higher pressures than the regulator setting and cause dangerous velocity spikes. It may be a very good thing that the valve starves or freezes up easily with CO2.

The rumour I heard was the old "Magic Box" was designed exactly for this purpose. Get some liquid in the dump chamber to produce how shots after chrono'ing at a legal velocity.

[SlartyBartFast]

My 68 carbine loves to drink Co2, its great, start shooting the gun, tip it downwards to suck in the liquid and then level again to shoot. It would start spitting out ice and keep on going like nothing happened.

Yes, and doing so SHOULD get you expulsed from the field unless you chrono'ed using that firing "technique".

Those shots would undoubtably be VERY hot.

[okiTony]

Uh...the Classic valves were designed before HPA was even in wide use, IIRC. You were probably OVERexpanding your CO2. That was your fault, not the CO2.


e: f,b

Yes, I know that Mags run on CO2, I was running CO2 for a long time. I am just saying that I was having problems until I changed to Air. Tried many ways, it didn't work for me. I never said that CO2 does not work, I just think it sucks. I would never use it again.

WARPED1- yea... I wouldn't put CO2 in a cocker either. A friend of mine had to buy a new reg for his. It was a pain to get it timed right also.

All in all, CO2 will work in practically any gun, but I wouldn't use it on mine.

[Jerhew]

Uh...the Classic valves were designed before HPA was even in wide use, IIRC. You were probably OVERexpanding your CO2. That was your fault, not the CO2.


e: f,b

doubtful.
lets keep one more thing in mind that was briefly mentioned earlier...
co2 works better in warmer climates...
which is why Glenn Palmer absolutely SWEARS by co2...he's from Cali!

Come to Buffalo with a mag and any co2 setup you can dream up and play on a cold spring morning...you'll see why some of us cringe at the idea of using co2 with a mag(co2 in anything...other than sodapop :) )

we dealt with it(because we had to) but once the first guy on our team got a hpa tank...and the rest of us got to try it, that was it. we all went hpa and no one ever looked back.

[Hotshot33610]

Sorry to bring this back up, but I just got an Automag RT Pro, and I want to use CO2 through it. If i used an antisiphon tank, would it work? I know it wont work that great, but will I be able to play with it?