Something New for Tom to think about

[kruger]

ok, Vaccuum was a bad choice of words. It would not create a vaccuum, but if the ports are aimed down towards the exit end of the barrel, then injecting hi pressure air would draw the ball towards the air stream and get the collum of air in the barrel moving. Also, we are not talking a great deal of air, just a bump to move the air in the barrel, only a few micro seconds long. And, as previously stated by another post, for a vaccuum, it would have to be sealed and the ball would not seal that end . I once again cite the Venturi effect. This effect is proven. The pricipals are the same. Also, like I said, timing is everything here and the timing could be acheived easily with a circuit board. The point of this thread is to tweak a little more performance out of a marker, not make major leaps down the paintball path. If you think about it, the pricipal is sound and if you agree with the pricipal, then the rest is just engineering bumps.

We have reached a point in the development of paintball markers that most people are satisfied with the speed that the markers shoot. 25 to 30 is faster than a vast majority of players can shoot. I dont care who you are, you just cant do it UNASSISTED. That means electronically. There may be the rare player that can do it, but not on a regular basis. That leaves only a coupla areas that need work. Accuracy, efficiency and range. I pose to you that the way that the paintball is fired from a marker greatly affects all three of the above mentioned areas. If not, then why choose a closed bolt over an open one? Spool over blowback? IF all markers can shoot 300fps, then what is the difference?

[ScatterPlot]

A vacuum would indeed be created, and I don't think the backpressure would hurt the ball TOO much, but the problem would be at a point a few inches in front of the "rest" position. The air would pull it the ball some, but when it fired out it would hit the higher pressure, higher volume of air that was shot in front of it and negate positive effects achieved. Think of it like tailing an 18-wheeler. At first, it will suck you in behind it in it's wake, but then you hit the truck. And firing at 15 BPS doesn't really compare to this; this would be like the balls are fired with one a couple INCHES in front of the other, rather than feet; that's like a million shots a second. Don't really know how much but the calculations have been done and while they are simple I don't wanna do them. Trust me, it's not anywhere close to attainable in anything we have now.

[minimag03]

Take a old Shocker with an air assist and drill a small hole in the barrel. Let us know how it works out.

[Maggot6]

Seems like a logical idea. Hope someone picks it up.

[kruger]

well, Maggot6, thats all I really wanted to do. Try and get this idea to someone who might be able to take this and see where it could go.

[ColdFuzion]

Awww, I just sold my Air Assist Shocker!!! This would not be the venturi effect, though. This would be waay different. The venturi theory is that is air is directed evenly on the surface of a paintball, it will accelerate better, with less deformation, and no, it is not yet prooved effectice. I personally hate venturis...

-Cold

[kruger]

ColdFusion, I beg to differ with you. The Venturi effect is proven. As I previously stated, this is the effect that makes carburators work. Air at velocity will draw a vaccuum, (or towards a vaccuum) behind it. That is how the fuel is drawn into the engine of a car (pre fuel injection). And, I dont think that an old style shocker would work. The air assist is part of the main air charge, there would be no time difference in the ported air and the firing of the paintball,

[hitech]

I repeat, to what end? What possible positive effect is this going to have?

[Army]

ColdFusion, I beg to differ with you. The Venturi effect is proven. As I previously stated, this is the effect that makes carburators work. Air at velocity will draw a vaccuum, (or towards a vaccuum) behind it. That is how the fuel is drawn into the engine of a car (pre fuel injection).

No. Air is drawn in by the suction created by the pistons as they descend. The Venturi Effect is; Air will occupy the position in space at all times, the air passing through a Venturi is forced to accelerate while compressing in order to maintain that same position. The effect can also be seen on hillsides facing the wind. The air at the bottom of the hill, is moving at the same velocity as the air at the top. In order for the "bottom" air to pass over the hill, it is forced to accelerate to the top...while maintaining it's same position in relation to the "top" air (if you fly RC slope sailplanes, this is the wind effect you use for lift and acceleration)

In a carburator, this accelerated air blows across a tube with exposed fuel. The now high speed air will hit the fuel, blasting it into a fine mist. The vacuum created by the falling piston will now draw this air/fuel mixture into the cylinder.

With all THAT been said, this paintball idea................blows.

[SlartyBartFast]

No. Air is drawn in by the suction created by the pistons as they descend. The Venturi Effect is; Air will occupy the position in space at all times, the air passing through a Venturi is forced to accelerate while compressing in order to maintain that same position. The effect can also be seen on hillsides facing the wind. The air at the bottom of the hill, is moving at the same velocity as the air at the top. In order for the "bottom" air to pass over the hill, it is forced to accelerate to the top...while maintaining it's same position in relation to the "top" air (if you fly RC slope sailplanes, this is the wind effect you use for lift and acceleration)

Umm. You don't quite have it right. I think you're both wrong.

The venturi effect causes suction and vacum. That's why the gasoline in a carburator is drawn into the air stream.

Similarily, air powered blowers/multipliers use small amounts high pressure air through a venturi to move large amounts of lower pressure air.

The reason this particular idea wouldn't work is that more energy would be wasted moving this "fictitious" problem of the air in the barrel than is used by simply pushing the back of the paintball directly.

[kruger]

I thank you all for your opinions on this subject. I consider this thread closed.