Who needs to aim? Angel speeds suck.

[OmniDynmc]

While playing rec ball last Saturday at my usual field, had about 300 walk-ons and sunny skies; always a lethal combination for a fun day. I noticed, that with the advancement of science and the basic human need for excessive firing speeds, some of the game seems to be lost. It seems to me that shooting over 14 balls per second takes the guesswork and skill out of actually aiming your marker in order to hit some one. I'll explain...

My normal squad got together on the same team in an effort to totally dominate the field like we usually do. One of our squad members has an Angel Speed, which he purchased to replace his older IR something. You used to be able to hear the space between shots on his old marker, and with the new one it quite honestly sounds like on constant stream. We played a game in the afternoon and discovered a father and son in the brush waiting in ambush (now of course we couldn't see that it was a father and son, just merely targets). My friend did his usual constant stream and basically lit them up (and I'm not faulting him really they were in the brush). The poor kid must have cried for about 10 minutes while we continued to play the game around them (they weren't walking off cause the kid was screaming bloody murder and dad was trying to comfort). I'm sure he hit them a multitude of times through the brush and if they did call hit early he wouldn't have even heard it. And the ironic thing is, he didn't even have a shot, just sprayed the hell out of the bush.

Though this situation brings to mind my normal opinion of, "if you can't take the heat go back to laser tag, or hide and go seek," and, "think twice before having your young children play with adults in that setting." I can't help but think how annoying it is to have people with markers that may not have full auto, but shoot just as fast and usually via bouncing the the trigger. And typically those who shoot that fast think they are invincible and refuse to go out when hit claiming they MUST have hit you. It's unthinkable that with all those shots, you kicked their a-- by actually aiming and picking your shots wisely.

I have an E-blade Cocker so, I understand the need to shoot fast and see a steady stream of balls flying at your opponent, but these days I'm using my Mag and singling shoting and finding it much more enjoyable and fair. Hell I even bought a Sydarm and play 8 shot ball up against these Angel/Supergun freaks.

What happened to the sport of actually taking aim and shooting? Reminds me of all these techno gadgets to "enhance" game hunting and that online website that let's you remotely control a camera with a gun attached to it that allows you to shoot targets and game on a guys property. There's no "sport" in it at all.

Greg

[phantomhitman]

why does it matter? you say you like to get together and dominate the field....but you complain about fast or unfair guns..... This arguement has no real answer, some people hate fast guns and others love them. Here is a question for you to think about. If your opponent is shooting 15 bps at you how are you going to win the game? Now rethink your question about the fast guns take the "skill" out of the game. You have to be faster, smarter, pick better angles, and play tighter because of these guns. I guess that does not take skill either? The sport is much faster than before, most of the time the aggressive teams win, but if they play stupid they will lose, everyone has a weakness.

You cannot lump everyone into the group of It's unthinkable that with all those shots, you kicked their a-- by actually aiming and picking your shots wisely. . Most people I know, especially the tourney players, are honest. In fact they are much faster and saying they are out than rec players. They are bad people at every field thta wipe, cheat, play on, and bounce away, But do not point fingers at a broad range of players (ex-tourney, scenario, or rec).
In this area, team-tourney-more experianced players do not play with walkons or rec players much. They either do not want us to, or we do not want to because it is unfair. I have played against little kids or father son groups were I would let a kid shoot me just so they could go brag about it. It helps the sport and does not scare the crap out of them because they have a dm5 going full bore at them.

[JaredMeier]

even with my old 10 bps shocker, I still felt like all I was doing was hosing people (10bps isnt necessarily hosing in todays terms though) ..if I was playing in a game against experienced players with better markers, who were mixed in with newer or inexperienced players (like most walk on games are), I still didnt find it necessary to unload on people . i realized that I wasnt challenging myself. so I stopped carrying a pack onto the field and just played off my hopper. I stopped shooting so much paint to the point that I wouldnt have to fill the hopper for a few games. I really liked doing that. I stopped feeling the need to spend so much on paint, and I was creating a more challenging game for myself. I even noticed that i could get more people out then some people who just shoot constantly at high ROF the whole game. that is my perspective, and people are welcome to have their own towards how they play. but there is a time and place for shooting 10-20 balls a second - on the speedball field against other speedballers (new or old ones), who are there for that kind of challenge and beating.

for walk on games that have players that havent played and dont have a marker like mine, we should take it easier on them. some of these players are only shooting 1-2 balls at you at a time, then why should you be shooting 15bps at their inexperience head? Let the newer players have more time on the field, while still trying to challenge them. Give them oppurtunities to move around and shoot people. it builds confidence and love for the game more so than if they were repeatedly hosed down. Hosed down by an uberfast electro w/ or w/out cheater boards.. to the point where they never can move and were continuously eliminated quickly, game after game.. that can alienate future players. it also can have other effects.

and maybe that is why certain players feel the need to act or be a certain way. they see that in order to be in paintball you have to be like those mean spirited individuals that dont care about anyone but themselves. if a kid is being unfairly wooped on by ill-natured egotistical and cocky players, he isn't going to have much confidence. he may have to start asserting himself in different ways. that is how it is in high school. you get tired of being picked on, so you end up going and picking on someone yourself. the "if you can't beat em, join em" out of necessity effect. the kid that gets wooped on by some player, sees how they act, then feels they must do the same. out of necessity to remain "confident", and to be a part of the sport.

so is paintball building confidence anymore? I dont know. because I am starting to see alot of unconfident kids who are only projecting this bad*** attitude in order to belong. the "high school popularity contest" politics are becoming more intwined in many aspects of this sport. fast guns and ramping boards aren't just being used for competitive reasons, kids are buying them to hide their social insecurities behind. it is one piece in the puzzle of how kids filling these roles. the fast marker is now more than ever becoming a part of an ever growing popularity contest. but not everyone with an electronic gun is this way.

I am not against people having electro's. I personally like mechs, but that is just where I come from.
but I do not like or appreciate when people use ramping boards. especially when they are playing against newer or younger players. so many people, no matter what they are doing in life, always seem to forget what it was like to be new at something. they forget where they came from. they don't see anything wrong with unnecessarily lighting up newer players. and alot of people have big egos. it is really said that those egos and bad attitudes are being fueled by cheater boards and unjust newbie kills.

[OmniDynmc]

Having never played paintball in the old pump days, I often wonder about how fun it would be to have every shot cost, and be able to actually make moves for cover on the field without running through a splat fest of "luck" and "spray and pray" shots. There aren't any pump fields, etc in my area that I know of.

Wouldn't it be wild if fields started limiting BPS to like 5-10?

Greg

[Python14]

lol, I'm sorry but this just reminded me of 5 years ago reading APG.

I'm with Phantom. I try to get with the more experienced group because I know I hated getting hosed. If I do play with newer players, I tone down my play a bit and let them get some eliminations on me.

[SlartyBartFast]

My normal squad got together on the same team in an effort to totally dominate the field like we usually do.

...

There's no "sport" in it at all.

Well, you said it best yourself.

If you were interessted in "sport" and improving your skills you would either play against other squads/teams or divide yourselves up between the walk-on groups and either concentrate on gunning for each other or abandon your personal markers and use the rentals (or get yourselves pumps, or otherwise put yourselves at a technological disadvantage to the walk-ons).

For the game to be interesting to the walk-ons, rules against overshooting MUST be enforced. A field owner that doesn't get rid of players like your friend risks losing repeat business from walk-ons. They paid to play and have fun. Not necessarily play for cut-throat competition.

"if you can't take the heat go back to laser tag, or hide and go seek," and, "think twice before having your young children play with adults in that setting." .

How about the opposite: "if you don't know how to be a sportsman, don't play walk-on.", "if it's not a tournamnet, play for fun or go elsewhere.", or "If there are are children on the field, take your game down a notch or find an adults only field."

Your quotes (and many use the same sayings) are really quite disgusting. If there was a pick-up game of Football in the park or a shinny game of hockey at the rink would you full body tackle or body check a 10-12 year-old that was playing and tell them to suck it up or quit playing?

[GT]

If you were interessted in "sport" and improving your skills you would either play against other squads/teams or divide yourselves up between the walk-on groups and either concentrate on gunning for each other or abandon your personal markers and use the rentals (or get yourselves pumps, or otherwise put yourselves at a technological disadvantage to the walk-ons).

does it really matter? It took me awhile to figure out that the difference bewteen my skill w/ and w/o an electro is that i can usually pull one guy off the break. If you play with rental's they PLAY like renters. There is a unique skill that a paintball player hones; the ability to organize the chaos. We have all played enough to know that there are times when you can barrel tag the entire other team. Although alot of players hide behind the gun.....

I say keep the guns and play with SKILLED players!

[Mr. Mouse]

yea.. i cant shoot 10 year olds i usally shoot at there feet and let someone else shoot them out, but if they do try to take me out ill shoot em in the leg just because im a nice person like that

[SlartyBartFast]

I say keep the guns and play with SKILLED players!

Certainly. That's your choice.

But, like a pick-up game in any sport, there is a lot of fun and enjoymet in playing for the joy of playing and sharing a good time.

And you can always get a competitive adrenaline rush in a walk-on game by bringing nothing but a couple hundred rounds and a PGP onto the field.

Regardless of anyones preference, they're a low form of if they bring their tournament game and "light-em up" attitude onto the field against new and/or younger players.

[magman007]

all i can say, is you onkly get better if you play people or teams better than you are

[OmniDynmc]

Well, you said it best yourself.
Your quotes (and many use the same sayings) are really quite disgusting. If there was a pick-up game of Football in the park or a shinny game of hockey at the rink would you full body tackle or body check a 10-12 year-old that was playing and tell them to suck it up or quit playing?

I don't see how they are disgusting. We're talking about a high-empact sport much like football or hockey. You typically don't see a bunch of 12 years olds playing tackle football with adults, nor do you see them playing hockey with adults without severely nerfing the rules of contact.

Yet, in the world we live in, parents let their kids play with adults in Paintball and the fields allow it, they have markers like everyone else and can shoot you just as anyone else could (ironically some can even light you up with their $1200 guns). Granted if I can see the person is young, I'll surrender them or one shot them, but in the brush facial/body recognition is brought to a halt.

The point of the post really is geared towards the "sport" of shooting a constant stream of balls and flooding the field or players with a case of paint in a matter of 5 minutes vs. the skill of taking aim and using a minimal amount of paint. My personal opinion is that the "sport" of the game is lost when you have to blindly spray paint that fast (blindly meaning I'm not sure it's really possible to accurately aim in that mannor), it deminishes the fun of head on manuvers when it is effortless for a single person to keep two or more down by droping a case of paint over there heads.

Greg

Greg

[68magOwner]

playing with fast guns takes alot of skill, just in different aspects of teh game, things like playing a bunker super tight, and running/diving fast have become increasingly more important than having superb aim.

With that said, i play front and can snap small objects- pods, masks, cans, whatever with 2 shots very fast and do it very consistently, if you dont think that takes aim, your crazy, yes my marker can spew rediculious ammounts of paint if im shooting a lane or whatever, but, that really isnt a huge factor in actuall in game gunfighting.

[Lohman446]

Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?

[68magOwner]

Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?

just because som kid is driving earnhearts car, or wearing bradys uniform, it dosent make em be able to drive or play football any better.

same allpies to paintball

[davidnj]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.

Its annoying. If I was recreational racing on a local track I would be upset if Earnhardt JR showed up with his car, crew, equipment - used bumping and other NASCAR tactics to obliterate the field and win. Or if I was playing backyard footbal and Tom Brady showed up to play QB for the other team, and just happened to bring all the NE Patriots with him and they all played together on one team to destroy the other team. You can look at the list of examples that go on and on.

Why do we insist on doing it in paintball?