Who needs to aim? Angel speeds suck.

[Lohman446]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.

I draw the line at this. If I show up with my tournament team at a rec event - regardless of what equipment we use, we are going to divide ourselves to each team. We are going to target (primarly) each other and take other eliminations just on a "happen to" basis. The same example, say you are playing backyard ball and the Patriots show up, they divide the team evenly and both sides play with people who are "very good". Its a lot more fun isn't it? I am not asking you not to use your equipment, or even to use your skill, which is more important than equipment. I think that we need to make certain that we, as players, do not go to rec events and "obliterate" the competition by stacking teams. There are very good players who play only rec - I realize this and this is not meant to be demeaning to any of them.

[OmniDynmc]

Where do you draw the line then? Is it a $25 walmart talon special that keeps the field totally even? Is the line at a classic mag valve is ok but an x valve isnt ok?

You have to be careful with the argument (That I think) you are trying to make. Heck, we can apply it to masks, is it fair that my mask doesnt fog up (and on the slim chance it starts to, I have a fan) and I play against people that sometimes do fog up and cant see as well as I do?

I think in certain aspects its unfair that I can pick between an Angel, an assortment of xvalved mags or a cocker when I play. At the same time though, being able to lay down 1,2,3,10,20 bps doesn't give me the advantage that having somebody like Tom Brady on my backyard football team does. It helps in certain spots, doesn't matter in other situations (with the pball marker).

/edit Wanted to add, while it does help to have superior equipment in some situations, i think overall the general skill of the player is more important.

Most fields clearly draw the line at full auto markers. Now obviously half of the reason is that the markers can be unsafe if a race condition is triggered. My field in orientation bans them mostly because it's not sporting to hold a trigger down and keep some one behind cover the whole game. Ironically they ban trippmans with reactive triggers turned on too.

However! That being said, there are a host of "one-shot" markers like Angel Speeds and others that do the EXACT same thing in essense that are not banned or regulated. So then, why is it any more sporting to be able to bounce the trigger so fast it's *like* full auto?

It's really not any specific marker that is called into question, it is what the marker is capable of doing. My use of the Angel Speed is simply for example purposes. If it truly is up to the skill of the player, why is the "skilled" player finding the need to spray the hell out of the field?

For me it isn't a whining issue, it's a logical one. If some one wants to waste a case of paint on me I don't get pissed on the field, but I'm certainly not impressed with their abilities and I don't really think it contributes to the sport in general. Often, I'd rather go 8 shot vs. 8 shot against them and see how REALLY "skilled" they are, but at the modern day paintball field it's a lost cause.

Greg

[davidnj]

Oh I misunderstood your first post. Yeah I agree somewhat with what you are saying here. The 5 people I play with (we are 27 now) have been playing together since we were 16. Up until 3 years ago we'd gladly split up on a rec ball day. Now that 2 of them live in Hawaii, 1 in northern NJ, me at the Jersey shore and the final in central NJ, our playing time together is limited to 1-2 times a year. On those days we definitely stick to the same team for a while, even if it means we win the first 3-4 games in a way overmatched manner. After we have our fun of playing on the same team we have no issues splitting up to make everybodys day more fun.

Outside of my little geography issue, I totally agree with you that its more fun to have a more challenging game. Sorry bout misinterpreting you!

I draw the line at this. If I show up with my tournament team at a rec event - regardless of what equipment we use, we are going to divide ourselves to each team. We are going to target (primarly) each other and take other eliminations just on a "happen to" basis. The same example, say you are playing backyard ball and the Patriots show up, they divide the team evenly and both sides play with people who are "very good". Its a lot more fun isn't it? I am not asking you not to use your equipment, or even to use your skill, which is more important than equipment. I think that we need to make certain that we, as players, do not go to rec events and "obliterate" the competition by stacking teams. There are very good players who play only rec - I realize this and this is not meant to be demeaning to any of them.

[Lohman446]

just because som kid is driving earnhearts car, or wearing bradys uniform, it dosent make em be able to drive or play football any better.

same allpies to paintball

You understand the spirit of the post though right? I know two players, that if I get far enough out of MI I could make an awesome team out of.. I can picture it at some event

Promotor: What division are you?
Me: Uhmm.. I don't know... uhmm, we all just got E-mags.. there a good gun right? Where should we be.
Promotor: Rookie...

Ouch, I'm going to get crucified for that, but think about peoples perceptions, and tell me I am wrong

For those of you who know the two players I am discussing I could then sit down and watch, because there would be no reason for me to take the field

The point is, judging people by equipment, to either end of the spectrum is going to cause you a problem.

I was playing rec in the woods one day, and had taken out my phantom - I gave one player a chance to surrender.. which he did not take, he turned, I shot him and he shot me. The next game I got out my Shocker - same situation he got three to the back without a chance to surrender - within the rules of the game. He hadn't seemed at all concerned when I told him he would no longer get the chacne to surrender as we walked off.. right up until I took a volley of shots off the side of the chrono with my Shocker.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't see how they are disgusting. We're talking about a high-empact sport much like football or hockey. You typically don't see a bunch of 12 years olds playing tackle football with adults, nor do you see them playing hockey with adults without severely nerfing the rules of contact.

Rubbish. Look in your local park on any weekend, or in most streets in Canada and what do you see? pick up games of football, hockey, baseball....

Many with diverse age groups.

You sir, ARE being an if you show up at a WALK-ON game and then proceed to "dominate" the field with your team.

Yes, you initially complained about is playing "stream of paint" a "sport". IMO, any form of paintball is as much a "sport" as another. Given that all the participants are playing with the same expectations. But point that you mised, is that most walk-ons are not there to play a "sport". They are there to play a "game". Just as players of "walk-on" games of football, baseball, hockey or other are there to play varying degrees of a game.

You have decided you want to play full-on hard contact. Fine. But YOU should limit your exposure to the walk-ons who want to have a fun day of paintball. Not the other way round.

Do you think the majority of the walk-ons came expecting the paintball equivqlent of a friendly flag football match or full-tackle?

If the field owner had half a brain, he'd have given your friend a warning and expelled him if he didn't tone it down or join a game filled with like minded players.

The fact that you and your friends continued to play around an injured and distressed player during a rec game is deplorable.

[xXHavokXx]

So because you cant adapt a gun sucks........

the best players in rec, tourney and scenario have all learned to play with how the game is chanigng. Pump guy sstill play, they just play differently (IE not running through wide open lanes wehre someone is going to be laning OR have learned to run through paint).

Yes running through lanes of paint is possible, my front players do it honestly every weekend.

[Lohman446]

So because you cant adapt a gun sucks........

the best players in rec, tourney and scenario have all learned to play with how the game is chanigng. Pump guy sstill play, they just play differently (IE not running through wide open lanes wehre someone is going to be laning OR have learned to run through paint).

Yes running through lanes of paint is possible, my front players do it honestly every weekend.

I do it honestly 90% of the time.

The other 10%... well sometimes I make it

[SlartyBartFast]

For me it isn't a whining issue, it's a logical one. If some one wants to waste a case of paint on me I don't get pissed on the field, but I'm certainly not impressed with their abilities and I don't really think it contributes to the sport in general. Often, I'd rather go 8 shot vs. 8 shot against them and see how REALLY "skilled" they are, but at the modern day paintball field it's a lost cause.

And I agree with you completely on that point.

Now, you just have to wake up to the realisation that during an open walk-on day, many if not most of the players don't want to play wagianst streams of paint or aggresive attitudes.

The academic argument of what constitutes "skill" is all fine and dandy in a vacum. It may actually have an answer or agreement or two if you're talking about specific levels or styles of play.

But the case at hand is not academic. The style of play and the attitude displayed are CLEARLY inappropriate for the setting.

If a player doesn't have the self-control and dicipline to use streams of paint with respect for the other player the ABSOLUTELY have no place in a walk-on game.

If they are going to become known only for their disregard for other players and laying down paint wihtout watching for breaks or calls, many older and more experienced players will also get tired of their participation as well.

If you have any sense of sportsmanship and any concept of self-worth, you should only be going onto the field with cases of paint if every one else is. Because if at the end of the day you are crowing because you "dominated" the field due to an unlimited wallet and a bad jerk overly competitve like attitude, I feel pity for you. You'll never have my respect.

[OmniDynmc]

Rubbish. Look in your local park on any weekend, or in most streets in Canada and what do you see? pick up games of football, hockey, baseball....

Many with diverse age groups.

You sir, ARE being an if you show up at a WALK-ON game and then proceed to "dominate" the field with your team.

Yes, you initially complained about is playing "stream of paint" a "sport". IMO, any form of paintball is as much a "sport" as another. Given that all the participants are playing with the same expectations. But point that you mised, is that most walk-ons are not there to play a "sport". They are there to play a "game". Just as players of "walk-on" games of football, baseball, hockey or other are there to play varying degrees of a game.

You have decided you want to play full-on hard contact. Fine. But YOU should limit your exposure to the walk-ons who want to have a fun day of paintball. Not the other way round.

Do you think the majority of the walk-ons came expecting the paintball equivqlent of a friendly flag football match or full-tackle?

If the field owner had half a brain, he'd have given your friend a warning and expelled him if he didn't tone it down or join a game filled with like minded players.

The fact that you and your friends continued to play around an injured and distressed player during a rec game is deplorable.

I don't believe I said I had a team. I said squad, and it's a group of friends that actually MET each other at that field over time and we DO play together and often times against each other depending on the number of walk-ons that day. Hell, I don't even play tourny.

And as to the football and hockey thing, since I don't play either, I play volleyball typically open gyms here don't have any 12 year olds. At least not at the park and rec centers in town, in fact you have to be over 18 just to get in due to the danger of the sport and liability. If you re-read my post you should find that I'm saying I think the Dad and the Kid got a raw deal partially because of the speed the marker is able to shoot at and partially because people are allowed to continue to do it.

Paintball is NOT flag football, whether they expect it or not, it is by nature a high-impact sport as I said earlier, if you don't come expecting to get hit with a paintball, it's probably not your sport, it *should* be common sense.

And if you must know, I actually stayed with them attempted to suggest the safest way to get off the field. Every rec field I've been to, it's very easy to get overshot, in fact this local field WARNS you that it can and does happen, and though discouraged it's a part of life.

I don't see a reason for your hostility to be honest, perhaps he could have chilled a bit on the shooting but show me a field where there aren't people shooting 14bps on average that isn't pump only and I'll wear a pink dress. Which of course brings us back to my point, how is shooting 14bps or higher "sport"ing?

If you'll take some more time to really read what I've said you'll find I'm not ripping up the unskilled players, I'm shaming the skilled (not refering to just tourny players) for needing to shoot their hopper out in a matter of seconds who shouldn't need to.

Greg

[xXHavokXx]

And the Angel Speed sucks because.....

The Angel Speed is an awesome gun. I love mine and WDP as a company. They hire hot women and make sure we get to talk to them on the phone.

back to my point; maybe you should say "Dude who hosed me and my squad with a Speed or hosed other people sucks" but not "Angel Speeds suck"

[hobbesTZ]

I didn't bother to read all the posts, but I think what it boils down to is that if you light up a n00b ( thats not your friend ) then you're an *******. It's not like you can't control the speed of any marker.

[Lohman446]

I was playing one day against a group, it was late in the day and the players left were mostly tournament players. We are all friendly, we know each other, we trust each other. We took this opportunity for one of the players to bring his son into the game. Now I had taken the snake, and had good backup, we were down to two players on there team. I was heavily throwing fire at there two positions, I assumed they were both the normal backplayers left. Well one of the players who I thought I was shooting at was on the sideline, out and he walked up to me. He simply told me that was the guys kid in one of the bunkers, and pointed out which one. I took the opportunity to practice snap shooting - you know what, I lost... sure I could have won.. I could have rained fire in, moved up the snake and angled both of them... but this way was more fun, gave me more practice, and allowed the kid a wonderful game. Did it cost me anything?

[bull]

I have to agree with the above. The orginal post stated they just wanted to go and destroy the other side has they usually do. So these cool guys go out and light up a 10 year old, theres showing a newbie.

I have played with everything from the orginal PGP (my first gun) up to a tricked out impluse. I now play on a scenario team and when we play walk-ons we tone down the game and try to make it fun. If I see some one in a bush I would not hose it down with 20BPS. I would fire some rounds in and give them a chance to pull out or give up. If I'am a superior player, I should be able to take them with no problem WITHOUT HURTING THEM. Even if it was two adults, instead of a 10 year old, they would have been two people who would never want to play again.

Now if Iam playing aganist another good team the gloves come off, but even then I dont just light people up. Save it for airball/tourney games where you have to play that way.

[OmniDynmc]

I have to agree with the above. The orginal post stated they just wanted to go and destroy the other side has they usually do. So these cool guys go out and light up a 10 year old, theres showing a newbie.

I have played with everything from the orginal PGP (my first gun) up to a tricked out impluse. I now play on a scenario team and when we play walk-ons we tone down the game and try to make it fun. If I see some one in a bush I would not hose it down with 20BPS. I would fire some rounds in and give them a chance to pull out or give up. If I'am a superior player, I should be able to take them with no problem WITHOUT HURTING THEM. Even if it was two adults, instead of a 10 year old, they would have been two people who would never want to play again.

Now if Iam playing aganist another good team the gloves come off, but even then I dont just light people up. Save it for airball/tourney games where you have to play that way.

*cough* I did not say we go out to destroy n00bs.

#1 It's a rec field.
#2 We were also "walk-ons" but we go there all the time to play.
#3 We were not a team, nor do any of us play tourny on teams or as teams.
#4 We all met each other over time as we played at that field.
#5 We go after each other ALL the time specifically. But we also enjoying playing a strategic game together and usually we play on the team with the least number of people to help balance the game.
#6 Yes if there is a person in front of us from the other team, we shoot them, that's part of the game. If they are young we TRY not to over shoot them but in the brush it can be hard to make that determination.

And #7: The POINT I was trying to make is that allowing people to shoot high rates of fire on rec fields takes the sport out of the game and in essense causes overshooting and massive paint flying everywhere.

Sheesh ya'll need to read a bit more carefully before firing off massive condemnations.

Greg

[onedude36]

This was happening at one of my fields.
*storytime*
It was me with my stock minimag, 2 ten yearolds, and their dad VS random washed up tourney wanna-be with a dm3 and a couple random nobs. He tried a run-through. He got 4 in the chest. He crawled lader, I went snake. He took 2 hits to the gun. It was fun.
*endstorytime*