ecocker vs. emag

[ben-afficial]

no one is yet to mention that a guns accuracy does lay within the barrel but.....even with that $200 barrel kit....a crappy aim is still a crappy aim.....give oli lang a talon and hell still be good, give shatner a million doller cocker/mag and hell still suck

[kurama]

Well, my best friend and teammate has owned both. Which has meant that I've shot both a ton. Right now, he owns an emag

Anyways in my experience, the emag was better. They weighed about the same but the emag was smaller and didn't have a beavertail and moving external parts. There's also no solenoid sticking out to get shot off or hosing. Yes, it does happen wether you say so or not, you'll get shot there eventually. Heck, I've been shot down the barrel twice in a row I found after cleaning my marker and finding someone else's paint in my breech! Also, the Level 10 bolt makes the mag chop-resistant for the most part. While I've yet to have an ecocker chop on me, it *is* out there waiting to happen. The emag can also be a mech if you ever need it to be one. The cocker is more gas efficient though. Still, with all that stacked against it, air efficiency doesn't mean too much. The big problem with mags is that a blade trigger costs $50... And you get one to choose from. A good one, but selection is good.

So, in my opinion the Emag will suit you better. Plus its a mag; what could go wrong?

-----

Oh and paintball markers don't go 240ft. Safe velocities at roughly 45* go around 140ft tops. The mag also has a lower pressure on the ball itself. Anyways, low pressure would not affect trajectory, because to shoot a paintball at the same velocity with a lower pressure you must increase volume which would have the same effect. The only advantage low pressure has is that you can shoot deeper into a tank. A 400psi marker can shoot without problems untiil the tank is at 400psi and an 800psi marker when the tank is at 800psi. Now, if you'd like to argue otherwise, go ahead. This isn't the place for it though.

I'm sure the cocker was more accurate. However, it was not because its a cocker. You didn't take everything into account. To truely test this (and it would still be psuedoscience), you must use the same air source under the same conditions regulated by the same regulator through the same barrel etc. So, you'd have to find identical condition regulators barrels and tanks. To do this on an automag with a built in regulator, you'd have to gut the reg on the mag which you didn't do or you would have said you did. And I'm fairly sure this would have adverse effects on any RT-style valve anyways. Also, there could have been a different temperature, wind strength or direction, moisture in the breech or in the air, etc.

[magncocker]

I finally found this thread.. I think. I think 93civ is my friend ryan. He is the reason I got a mag to go along with my cocker. He had told me about this thread when we played a week ago, and the reason he told me was the current situation. He was playing his mag since we were at a field and he kept getting heckled by these 3 autococker users and a timmy user. He was basically blowing them off as they insisted mags suck and autocockers rule. I couldn't believe what jerks the idiots were being. And then ryan told me about being on the other side of fence on here just for suggesting a person buy an e-cocker.

It's hilarious. I know how he feels if this is ryan, which i'm pretty sure it is. (seeing as he drives a 93 civic). He actually likes the differences in the two guns, and sees his guns as equal, but he uses them in different situations. As far as accuracy is concerned, I know he did exhaustive testing pushing the limits of 4 guns... 2 different mags and 2 different cockers. In the end, his clue to me was that in general, as long as a paintball gun is pushing the right & consistent amount of air it doesn't matter who makes it or what style of gun it is as far as accuracy is concerned. For a while he had a contest going where he had a pot, and if you could outshoot EITHER of his guns you would win the pot. Basically it cost $1 to try. And if you used a cocker you had to take on the mag, and vice versa. Neither of his guns are stock, and both have parts on them that you can't buy anywhere, things he fabricated. As far as understanding a paintball gun, this is one of the smartest people I know. He works on nuclear aircraft carriers.

On top of that, he has his own prototype gun which is amazing. The gun so far shows no shootdown, and uses an incorporated stationary bolt he designed himself along with a unique feeding system. I'm anxious to see how fast he can push it with real paint in it, because so far he hasn't broken a single ball in it. The design and concept are unique. I hope he doesn't get pissed at me revealing any of this because it isn't really anyone else's business. But after I saw him get heckled most of the day at paintball, even though he was repeatedly beating the idiots on the field, I was upset to hear that there were mag guys on a forum doing the same thing. I kept asking why he didn't just lay into you guys and he just said it wasn't worth it, he didn't want to be involved in a stupid biased flame war. I doubt he'll post again although he might call to tell me to edit this stuff out and just let it die.

Then again, I doubt he has read your accusations that he doesn't understand the workings of a paintball gun. This is the guy who knew the autococker so well that in the first day of owning it he had it timed up perfect, then changed it around to act like an open-bolt gun, then made it fire on the release instead of the pull, and finally added on to the pneumatics to make it fire on both the pull and release to be funny.

When he got his mag he was able to make it fire on the pull and release, and then without any electronics he was able to make it fire a 3 round burst, which I still don't understand how he did it. This is one of the nicest and smartest guys I know. And a guy whose passion is advancing the game of paintball. He built his own electronic trigger frame for both the mag and the cocker, and they both were sick. But he still plays a mech version of both, because his motto is "if the gun is accurate enough, you only need one ball not 3". He has a bunch of custom upgrades that he thought of and designed. He has a triggerless triggerframe which is insane.

For the record, after inquiring about what came with both of the guns suggested, his personal feeling was that the e-cocker was a better deal, especially if he talked the guy down to where the price should be. He tried to say it numerous times. He felt that with the current configuration/bolts/barrels.. etc on both of them, the autococker would be a bit more accurate. At the same time, he said that it was a matter of feel and the guy should try both guns out because that was the most important thing.

I swear. God forbid someone say anything is wrong with a mag in a mag forum, or an autococker in an autococker forum. ryan could have been a bigger part of this forum and shared some of his unique creations without caring about a profit. His one flaw is that he has a short-temper, and he is a Christian so he's been working on fixing that. He just ignores flamers at fields now, and I doubt he'll do much more than buy and trade on here now.

[Dayspring]

We're not flaming the cocker! We told him that too. Apparently you two share the same problem in reading...

It's the false belief that the cocker shoots more accurate than the mag that we're talking about. IT DOESN'T. All guns will have the same accuracy with a consistent air source and barrel match. Has anyone said that cockers suck? No. Has anyone said that the mag is better than the cocker? No. Has anybody said that his ideas on the physics behind the gun and its performance was wrong? You betcha.

I don't care if he works on a nuclear engineer or at McDonalds. Wrong is just wrong. And that's what your buddy is.

[SlartyBartFast]

And then ryan told me about being on the other side of fence on here just for suggesting a person buy an e-cocker.

Both you and your friend have to re-read this thread. You're not paying any attention to what is actually being said.

Ryan (if that is his real name) clearly made unsubstantiated claims that were challenged. He has refused to address the challenges and has instead illogically and irrationally taken them as flames against cockers.

Let's also look at the attitude of Ryan in entering the thread. It was balanced and informative until one member (jokingly?) said mags rule and cockers suck. For the love all that is holy there was even a smiley! But Ryan blasts AO as Mag bigots based solely on that one post.

Then, when challenged on either his attitude or one specific claims, he retreats into calling people names, insulting their spelling, calling BS (and he can't stand his own BS being identified either), and what little he has added he simply repeats his claims and refuses to admit he might be mistaken or at least discuss the differences of opinions in an adult manner.

Am I as white as the driven snow? No. But I give the same as I take.

[SlartyBartFast]

I swear. God forbid someone say anything is wrong with a mag in a mag forum, or an autococker in an autococker forum. ryan could have been a bigger part of this forum and shared some of his unique creations without caring about a profit. His one flaw is that he has a short-temper, and he is a Christian so he's been working on fixing that. He just ignores flamers at fields now, and I doubt he'll do much more than buy and trade on here now.

And I swear too. He does have to work on his temper. And walking away with it bottled up is not a resonable solution.

God forbid either you or Ryan read the parts in this thread where people actually agree with Mag shortcomings or the fact I questioned Mag based myths that he posted as truth.

God forbid you read the posts that agree that pricewise the second hand cocker MAY be a better deal.

Perhaps the prejudice is not part of the "Mag Forum" but is part of your own prejudiced perception of the Mag Forum.

[SlartyBartFast]

here are the specs:

emag:
warp left (twistlock)
2 barrels all american, lapco bigshot
warp and all mods you can get on it
1.37 technology(or whatever it is with a 1)
and a drop with an on/off and asa.

$550 shipped

and the e cocker:
~eblade frame with eye installed
~wgp delrin bolt with o-rings
~kapp twisted cocking rod
~wgp pull pin
~sto ram-with qevs installed
~wgp tickler reg
~shocktech hpr reg-with dye gauge
~all american 14 inch barrel
smauari trigger

$500

so i can't decide at all. mags are really reliable and cockers shoot darts...

Bringing it back to basics.

BOTH will be reliable.
BOTH will "shoot darts".

BUT the Emag comes with a WARP. Equal price I'd go with the EMag as you have an electro and mech all in one, and you've got a WARP. If it's a twistlock body you can put a regular hopper on top too.

The EMag might just be heavier as it would be a stainless body and valve.

Now here's a really good idea:

SHop around or talk the Emag guy down in price. If you get an Emag without the warp, you can get the ULE body and WARP combo from AGD.

[magncocker]

As far as accuracy is concerned, I know he did exhaustive testing pushing the limits of 4 guns... 2 different mags and 2 different cockers. In the end, his clue to me was that in general, as long as a paintball gun is pushing the right & consistent amount of air it doesn't matter who makes it or what style of gun it is as far as accuracy is concerned.

For the record, after inquiring about what came with both of the guns suggested, his personal feeling was that the e-cocker was a better deal, especially if he talked the guy down to where the price should be. He tried to say it numerous times. He felt that with the current configuration/bolts/barrels.. etc on both of them, the autococker would be a bit more accurate. At the same time, he said that it was a matter of feel and the guy should try both guns out because that was the most important thing.

Yeah, I'm the one who has a problem with reading Dayspring. Read the above two quotes two more times and try to jumpstart your brain. I know his feeling on the stupid rivalry. Both of us know what does and doesn't affect accuracy. The point being, ryan feels that with the upgrades CURRENTLY ON the two guns the guy was choosing from, ryan felt the accuracy advantage would go to the autococker, along with the efficiency. But he stressed that FEELING was the most important factor, and he advised the buyer to go shoot both of them and make a decision afterwards based on what he liked better. I now know why ryan just left this alone. I will too. As for you Slarty, I'm not wasting my time reading everything in this thread and I'm not about to answer for ryan. You can pm him with certain questions if you like, but he has already said he was done posting in here. When it's a whole group versus one person, and a good number of people are just posting BS, it isn't possible for him to deal with both the legitimate questions and the BS. For every one post he writes, there is like 5-10 coming back, and half of them are not even worth reading. You are welcome to pm him one on one and discuss whatever, although I can't promise he'll even respond. I do know what it's like trying to take on an entire crowd. It's easy to win a debate with 15-1 odds, because you can never address everyone before they keep throwing more stuff on the table. And that's all I'm saying about that. I'm not going to speak for him.


As for the few pm's, I'll try to answer the questions here instead of in a bunch of repetitive pm's.

Is ryan thinking of working for a paintball development company? -that's his personal business

Has he been offered? -yes

Is he putting any of his ideas into production? -I hope he does, I know that's his plan for the prototype

Did anyone ever steal the pot? -no. The closest competitor was an older model custom pump gun that was beautiful.

Can you challenge him for the pot? -no, that contest ended over a year go. The money went to a charity.

Will ryan post/explain his prototype design? -I doubt it, he's copyrighting it

Will I give any more info on it? -no, I value that friendship

Will ryan help you with something you are developing? -pm him and find out, i'm not volunteering him for anything

Does Ryan prefer a mag or a cocker? -yes

Do I prefer a mag or a cocker? -yes

(I know those answers are ambiguous, they are supposed to be).

Can you buy any of ryan's upgrades? -which ones are you interested in?? (I never really mentioned what his upgrades were.. lol). A better answer would be possibly, he has debated selling/installing for a small $ versus releasing the info for free to help out. I have no clue what he will decide.

I think that's everything. If I missed any questions then please pm me or him. I doubt I will post in this thread again. After immediately being attacked by a person who said I can't read, when obviously he didn't take the time to read the "novel" I had written. My reason for this is that I enjoy paintball. And it is bad enough getting frustrated dealing with punk kids who wipe paint. Last thing I need is to get frustrated wasting my breath in a forum, so I'm not going to do it. Obviously ryan never came in here with the intent of saying mags suck... he plays one, he designs upgrades for them... and he advised me to get one and helped me build one. I have seen the random people who come in to say the stupid "cockers rule and mags suck", and he definitely isn't one of them, yet you attacked him like he was. With that, I'm done. Everyone have a great day and let this die.

[Pr0d1gy]

He was playing his mag since we were at a field and he kept getting heckled by these 3 autococker users and a timmy user.

Think about it man. A Timmy user and 3 Autococker users? First off, when has a Timmy user ever had a right to talk trash about any gun? The worst gun I ever owned was a Timmy, it was a terrible ball chopping piece of trash. And I remember going to the field with my Minimag back in the day & seeing the ever confident guys with their Autocockers turn white when they saw me walk in.

The worst thing your buddy Ryan is doing is folding to peer pressure. If I was going to spend $1050 I would get a Devilmag and an Empire Reloader B, and then I would go out on that field and challenge those 4 guys to a 4 on 2. You & him against those 4 dudes. That would shut them up real quick. Honestly, if they made fun of my Minimag I would just laugh at them & walk away, but that's more a test of your character than anything. BTW, I'm an engineer too and I'm getting my medical degree this fall after I finish my computer science degree this summer ...lol Why is it everyone on the internet has a friggin high end job?

[Maggot6]

If I understand correctly (I don't own an ecocker, so I don't know) with an eccker, you don't have to do nearly as much timing and adjusting after the first time. Someone clarify if what I have heard is true or not..
Assuming that is true, the emag and the cocker will both take little tuning, and maintanence problems. They both shoot fast. They both look good. they both are a tad on the heavy side (stock...) So, just go with which one you think looks better.

[ben-afficial]

just buy what you like more...you shouldnt listen to some one who hates mag or cocker cuz theyll just tell you their guns best so you should buy it....listen to some one who likes both cocker and mag, better ratings there

[christianpball13]

[jewie27]

I'll play devil's advocate. I've played both. I like both, but an e-cocker will outshoot an e-mag in my experience. TO CLARIFY (before people start flaming), I play both an autococker AND an automag, and both will handle a very good rate of fire. But autocockers are more accurate,

'Cockers are NOT more accurate than any gun.

[jewie27]

Mags have no external moving parts.

[ben-afficial]

the gun does not decide accuracey.....barrel and paint decide that.....so argue about that