Female Paintball "Stars": The Ultimate Poser?

[Alley]

Well, I haven't really had much chance to play paintball. So, my opinion might not matter much but, I'd like to give it anyway. I am a competive person. I like to play most sports. It is quite unfortunate that paintball is a mostly male dominant sport. But, that being said I dont think all females are attention driven, I want to play for pure competition .....winning is fun and if it happens to be against men or women its all the same in the end. When you are on the field I would hope that your not thinking Hey is that a girl or a guy i'm shooting at ....It like any sport is hopefully for the love of the game and the good feeling of a game well played. I think those who are attention seeking should wear those fluffy little skirts put on their water bras and jump up and down on the sidelines as useless cheerleaders. To distract the braindead guys on the field so I can shoot them way easier!
Thank you for my time on the soap box. I am done

[Cameo]

Just a side note that was pointed out to me...
More often then not the females that can not get attention easily (wheather they are not the most personable or they "hold" themselves wrongly) tend to be the ones that put down the girls who can get and like attention. People learn to deal with thier situations differently...Some in a positive manner, others in a negitive manner.
I would wager that any girl that is on the same "level" in what God gave her would not think ill on the "stars" of paintball. Unless of course she was trying to get thier job.

[Lohman446]

People are going to get out of there league of skill with attitude. I have a certain attitude around paintball, and it has thrust me into levels of play, levels of leadership that I am certainly not, based on my skills in paintball, supposed to be at. Its not skill that has put me there, its attitude, well attitude coupled with a few cases of astoundingly good luck. But the thing is, that attitude allows everyone to see those rare cases of luck as skill, and those normal cases of lack of skill as lack of luck.

How many people think that skill is all of it. I know of at least three players on my team that are unquesionably better than I am at what they do. I have seen it, I know it by game play. Yet I get more respect for the team, more credit for victories, than they do. Is it fair to them? Not at all - but skill takes you so far, and attitude takes you so far. One can overcome the other...

[CoolHand]

. . . . . skill takes you so far, and attitude takes you so far. One can overcome the other...

And that's why people don't see paintball as a sport . . . . . . . .

Name a single other professional sport where "attitude" and how you carry yourself can overcome a lack of skill. And Pro Wrestling does not count.

That was two absolutely wonderful posts in a row. One that boils it down to the bare essentials when women are arguing - "The ugly girls are just jealous that they can't get 'insert whatever is being argued over' based on their looks alone. If they were pretty too, they wouldn't have a problem with it." Followed directly by teh paintball persona so prevalent that it hedges on clique' - "My team mates are better at the game than me, and basically carry the team, but I talk the talk better, so I get all the glory, therfore I am the better overall PB player."

Those two jems were just too good to pass up. :rofl:

[Alley]

Ok, I have a question.......Do the guys play paintball for the attention? Or because they like to play and are good at it? If your main attraction to paintball is ..attention, why excatly are you playing it and not just being some eye candy standing in a booth sporting the lastest paintball gun but, no idea how to actually use it? and leave the playing to those who have some skill base and not hope they they can woo their fellow team member to glance their way just because they can figure out how to pull a trigger? Thank you have a nice day...and please stay seated until the ride comes to a complete stop!

[Lohman446]

And that's why people don't see paintball as a sport . . . . . . . .

Name a single other professional sport where "attitude" and how you carry yourself can overcome a lack of skill. And Pro Wrestling does not count.

That was two absolutely wonderful posts in a row. One that boils it down to the bare essentials when women are arguing - "The ugly girls are just jealous that they can't get 'insert whatever is being argued over' based on their looks alone. If they were pretty too, they wouldn't have a problem with it." Followed directly by teh paintball persona so prevalent that it hedges on clique' - "My team mates are better at the game than me, and basically carry the team, but I talk the talk better, so I get all the glory, therfore I am the better overall PB player."

Those two jems were just too good to pass up. :rofl:

For the record - I do not beleive for a moment I am better than anyone on my team, and I do not beleive the attitude makes me a better overall player. I think its sad that people don't see through it. I have the attitude because thats who I am... not a show for show sake. I am not a better overall player. If life was fair, I would coach the team... I would stand on the sidelines and do what I do best, be the attitude of the team. However, it doesn't work that way - if I'm not playing the "talk" doesn't work. I have been gunned for off the break because of the attitude from time to time, and it is the most useful I am to my team, except when I'm lucky, to serve as a distraction.

Examples of sports where charisma matters (sorry not to pull statistics, I don't really love sports) Nascar - Earnhardt Jr. is where in the standings for the past few years and where in $$ for sponsorship? Basketball - in the past few years was Rodman really all that? Baseball - Ozzie Smith.

These people all have great skill - but there charisma carries them further than skill alone
Im sure there are others

[CoolHand]

For the record - I do not beleive for a moment I am better than anyone on my team. I think its sad that people don't see through it. I have the attitude because thats who I am... not a show for show sake.

Examples of sports where charisma matters (sorry not to pull statistics, I don't really love sports) Nascar - Earnhardt is where in the standings for the past few years and where in $$ for sponsorship? Basketball - in the past few years was Rodman really all that? Baseball - Ozzie Smith.

These people all have great skill - but there charisma carries them further than skill alone
Im sure there are others

Racing is something I have spent the last ten years of my life doing. There are no parrallels to be drawn between paintball and racing. But just to prove a point (and to clarify, there are two Dale Earnhardts), IIRC, Dale Jr. finished 4th in the points last year. Pretty respectable. He also won three or four races. That is why he pulls down the big bucks. Dale Sr. is dead, his troubles are over.

If you believe for a second that anyone who sets in the seat of a Cup car is there based more on thier charm than their ability with the wheel, you are sorely mistaken. NASCAR racing is more about having a fast car, and a driver who can make use of it, not how purdy you are. Now, granted there are some pretty boys up there, but they can all drive circles around lesser compedators. They got there because they are good, being good looking is just a side bonus for them. Sponsors want a winning team first and foremost, having an articulate and good looking spokesman is icing on the cake.

I don't follow basket ball or base ball, you may be right on those, though Ozzy was damned good in his day.

Charisma may help you become a star once you get to the show with your skills, but it won't keep you there. Skill at the game is the only thing that will keep you in the show, everything else is secondary.

[Lohman446]

Charisma may help you become a star once you get to the show with your skills, but it won't keep you there. Skill at the game is the only thing that will keep you in the show, everything else is secondary.

I think your slightly wrong.. let me word it this way. "Skill will help you get to a level charisma will help you be a star at that level, and charisma may keep you there. You need skill to get there though"

See.. there was an error in communication, because I think you and I agree more than it shows here. There is a base need for skill - of exactly what level?? Well in paintball it is lower than other sports I think because frankly its not as big of a sport with as many players or wannabe players.

When I say my team carries me - I mean that. I could drop a division, possibly two and be in the skill set that I should be in, and be one of the top players in the area in that division. I have some skill, but it is not even average to the division I play in. When I moved up divisions, noone bothered to drop what they thought of me in this division.. they just assumed I would continue to be "good" here to. Now its all attitude that carries me, and luck. A better racing example I think may have been Mark Martin??

Skill alone will only carry you so far. Remember we were discussing female players, and I asserted they were beneficial because of there marketability. Lets say I have two teams - team A) is a great team, clearly better, but they come off as cold to the fans... they practice routine, and they play a very technical, very sound game. They are #1 team B) is a very good team. They play together well, with some off handed strategies and some show boating that costs them games. They intermingle with the fans and take things a bit less seriously. They are the #2 team

Which team is a better sponsorship deal? Which one will sell more gear, will be more admired?

[Miscue]

Ok, I have a question.......Do the guys play paintball for the attention? Or because they like to play and are good at it? If your main attraction to paintball is ..attention, why excatly are you playing it and not just being some eye candy standing in a booth sporting the lastest paintball gun but, no idea how to actually use it? and leave the playing to those who have some skill base and not hope they they can woo their fellow team member to glance their way just because they can figure out how to pull a trigger? Thank you have a nice day...and please stay seated until the ride comes to a complete stop!

Guys like attention too, but I think that they prefer to pursue it through triumph and accomplishments - success. This sort of thing makes a man more attractive than it would for a woman.

If you're a curvaceous babe and drive an '87 Buick - the guys do not care. They won't even see the car, they're concentrating on the T&A. Of course there is the exception. I for one am not easily distracted by T&A... at least once... maybe twice a year.

A good looking girl sees a guy in an '87 Buick - and she WILL care. Oh yes, she will. All she sees is a loser in an '87 Buick. Once again, there is the exception. Maybe that's not his real car and he stole the Buick, which makes him dangerous, exciting, and all the more attractive.

The point is, both like attention. How they are able to obtain it and how they seek it is different for the most part.

[CoolHand]

I think your slightly wrong.. let me word it this way. "Skill will help you get to a level charisma will help you be a star at that level, and charisma may keep you there. You need skill to get there though"

See.. there was an error in communication, because I think you and I agree more than it shows here. There is a base need for skill - of exactly what level?? Well in paintball it is lower than other sports I think because frankly its not as big of a sport with as many players or wannabe players.

When I say my team carries me - I mean that. I could drop a division, possibly two and be in the skill set that I should be in, and be one of the top players in the area in that division. I have some skill, but it is not even average to the division I play in. When I moved up divisions, noone bothered to drop what they thought of me in this division.. they just assumed I would continue to be "good" here to. Now its all attitude that carries me, and luck. A better racing example I think may have been Mark Martin??

Skill alone will only carry you so far. Remember we were discussing female players, and I asserted they were beneficial because of there marketability. Lets say I have two teams - team A) is a great team, clearly better, but they come off as cold to the fans... they practice routine, and they play a very technical, very sound game. They are #1 team B) is a very good team. They play together well, with some off handed strategies and some show boating that costs them games. They intermingle with the fans and take things a bit less seriously. They are the #2 team

Which team is a better sponsorship deal? Which one will sell more gear, will be more admired?

Yes, I do believe we have come to an agreement here. The charisma/skill combo is very much weighted towards floating on BS in paintball, much more so than any other real sport.

Also, I think a lot of why attitude works in PB is because of the age group of most players. Unless you are a salty old dog, when you play a new team, and they talk a good game, chances are that they will intimidate a good 60% of their adversaries into screwing something up. It has a lot to do with maturity, and how easily people are impressed/swayed. The older you get, the harder it is to be impressed/intimidated.

And I also agree that charisma is important for any pro athlete to succeed. Sponsors do want the whole package, but when it comes to men, this usually makes skill a prerequisite. As we have all seen, this is not the case when dealing with females.

You might as well get used to it, 'cause until the target group isn't 13-25 yr old males, there will be scantly clad women pushing gear, and female teams playing at the pro level, solely for the sake of their ambiance.

That said, I don't think that a woman needs respect to be good. If she's good, then she should just whoop the fire out of anyone who gets in her way, and then roll the posers when she hits the pros.

No team in their right mind (who wanted to win) would turn away a player who consistantly broke open the game, or had an elimination ratio of 10:1 simply because they were a woman. I think most guys would be stoked to have a bad *** chick on their team, if for no other reason than the she is always under rated. Its like flying a nuclear weapon in under their radar. By the time they realize they are in trouble, it will be far too late for them to do anything about it.

Just keep banging away at it, there is a lot more to life that respect and being shown your "propers". Play the game just for the game, you will eventually find a place to accel.

[Target Practice]

I would wager that any girl that is on the same "level" in what God gave her would not think ill on the "stars" of paintball. Unless of course she was trying to get thier job.

Like tsc said before, that's the ignorance talking. I wonder who "pointed it out" to you, because I think that would lead you to the source of it.

Ok, I have a question.......Do the guys play paintball for the attention? Or because they like to play and are good at it? If your main attraction to paintball is ..attention, why excatly are you playing it and not just being some eye candy standing in a booth sporting the lastest paintball gun but, no idea how to actually use it? and leave the playing to those who have some skill base and not hope they they can woo their fellow team member to glance their way just because they can figure out how to pull a trigger? Thank you have a nice day...and please stay seated until the ride comes to a complete stop!

That's the thing, guys don't get near the same level of attention as girls do from within the paintball population, which is the community in question. I never played for the "attention", I played because it was fun and I loved it from the moment I played. I hadn't even heard of it before I played with my friends in an almond orchard with Talons.

I think most guys would be stoked to have a bad *** chick on their team, if for no other reason than the she is always under rated. Its like flying a nuclear weapon in under their radar. By the time they realize they are in trouble, it will be far too late for them to do anything about it.

Lemme tell you a story about tsc real quick. We went out to play at the local field about...8-9 months ago. It was the first time she'd been playing paintball in a year (if it sounds familiar, she tells another part of this story in an earlier post), and it was the first game. She was in a full knee brace, and a wrist brace. Who did they put on her mirror? The kid who had to borrow a crap Tippmann to play his first game of paintball. Now, after that game, which she completely dominated everyone on the field (and, coincidentally, left me with nothing to do...), who did they put on her mirror? The two practicing tourney guys with Timmies; one of which is the jerkface in the other story.

[CoolHand]

. . . . . Now, after that game, which she completely dominated everyone on the field (and, coincidentally, left me with nothing to do...), who did they put on her mirror? The two practicing tourney guys with Timmies; one of which is the jerkface in the other story.

See? Now that is your (or rather her) respect. It doesn't matter what they say to your face, look at what they actually do. By double stacking those two guys to take her out, they were admitting that they could not disregard her as they did before.

This is as close as you are going to get to respect in the PB world, IMO at least. Very seldom do you see good sports anymore, to the point that you just have to gauge their respect for you by the fear they demonstrate when dealing with you.

I'm a fat "old" guy (I'm only 25, but I actually had an AGG kiddie at a field call me an old man not too long ago), who doesn't dress flashy, or curse and scream in a game. For the first couple of games in a day, I get looked at like I'm the biggest yokle (hello, redneck here). The fact that I'm fat and have a funny accent does not stop me from shooting them out though. Its funny to see how they react when they realize that I am not a noob with a borrowed marker. :rofl: I just play to have a good time, I don't want to be a super player, pro or whatever. I am happy being a redneck walkon in blue jeans and a Tshirt. I do get a good chuckle from their frustration sometimes though.

[tsc]

Just a side note that was pointed out to me...
More often then not the females that can not get attention easily (wheather they are not the most personable or they "hold" themselves wrongly) tend to be the ones that put down the girls who can get and like attention. People learn to deal with thier situations differently...Some in a positive manner, others in a negitive manner.I would wager that any girl that is on the same "level" in what God gave her would not think ill on the "stars" of paintball. Unless of course she was trying to get thier job.

Edit: Oh, I get it. I'm jealous because I'm ugly and trying to get the pretty girls out of a job. Gotcha.

I'd really like to know who pointed that out to you, and why they think they understand my motivations. I'm willing to bet I know who, and if that's true, I know for a fact they know nothing they're talking about.

I've learned to deal with my 'situation' in the best way possible-- By trying to change it for the better, and help female players who don't like being treated like trash.

See? Now that is your (or rather her) respect. It doesn't matter what they say to your face, look at what they actually do. By double stacking those two guys to take her out, they were admitting that they could not disregard her as they did before.

It wasn't admitting a thing. They couldn't bear to lose to a girl.

And yes, it is what they say to my face (and behind my back). I don't like being called a stupid whore, or slut, or anything along those lines. Which I get. Every time I go to the field. Not by my friends, no. They stand with me. But for the vast majority of the players there, I am some stupid ho they won't lose against.

It's not an act out of respect, or recognition. It's an act out of refusing to be emasculated. There's a subtle difference there, and when it becomes the overpowering feel of people's actions towards me... it tends to ruin an otherwise good day of play.

Hell, I tech most of the time now anyway, and I have guys refusing to let me look at their marker, instead going two feet to my left to the guy sitting next to me. I used to work at a paintball store, and guys wouldn't trust my opinion..instead going to the guy two feet from me. (I had one guy come in, "Can I help you?" "No, you can't.", and ask my co-worker if we had o-rings..).

It's idiotic in paintball, sometimes, how females are treated. It's partially the 'pro' players who are everything but, it's partially the ingrained 'boys can't lose to girls' attitude, it's partially the fact there aren't enough girls in the sport for only the sport. It's partly alot of things. I try to correct ignorance, and put my best game, knowledge, and attitude out there.

I still get called a 'dumb chick' at the end of the day, by the guys who's markers I fix.
I still get looked at funny when I say that I play.
I still get told that I'm wrong. When I'm right.

And I still get told that I'm only doing it for the attention, or because I'm jealous, or because I just want to be popular.

And yet I still play this stupid sport.

[SCpoloRicker]

See? Now that is your (or rather her) respect. It doesn't matter what they say to your face, look at what they actually do. By double stacking those two guys to take her out, they were admitting that they could not disregard her as they did before.

This is as close as you are going to get to respect in the PB world, IMO at least. Very seldom do you see good sports anymore, to the point that you just have to gauge their respect for you by the fear they demonstrate when dealing with you.

I have to agree with Coolhand here. tsc, it seems like this is respect, at least on the field. The fact that some players are jerks, and misogynsts (sp?) shouldn't really be a surprise.

Ok, I have a question.......Do the guys play paintball for the attention? Or because they like to play and are good at it? If your main attraction to paintball is ..attention, why excatly are you playing it and not just being some eye candy standing in a booth sporting the lastest paintball gun but, no idea how to actually use it? and leave the playing to those who have some skill base and not hope they they can woo their fellow team member to glance their way just because they can figure out how to pull a trigger? Thank you have a nice day...and please stay seated until the ride comes to a complete stop!

Alley, I would guess there aren't many spokesmodels on this board... I'm not gonna even touch the "you're just jealous comment."

[Target Practice]

I have to agree with Coolhand here. tsc, it seems like this is respect, at least on the field. The fact that some players are jerks, and misogynsts (sp?) shouldn't really be a surprise.

I think it's not so much as respect as it's an attempt to not be made fools of. Respect would be admitting to her/anyone, "Damn, you/she plays a pretty good game. We're gonna have to look out for you/her." Does this ever get said? Hell no.