DYE has Proto, should AGD have a "Pro" label?

[JAM]

[etjoyride]

Ever hear the saying "you hear what you expect to hear" dunno where some people are getting the impression that people think "mags suck". every field in san antonio/houston i've been to everyone has been totally impressed with mags and think they are the shiznit. I mean i've had refs coozing all over my emag/tac and saying they wish they had a mag, mags are the shiznit for accuracy, etc. Maybe Texas is odd or something, but everyone is swinging back into agd's favor here. I mean, where else do you see 3 XMags and 2 emags in one day on the same field? I love agd products, and i also love WDP products, hence i have both. Quality is #1 in my book, and they both have it in spades.
I think AGD is fine the way it is. no need to make an AGDScion or somesuch. I'm glad AGD doesnt make STBB guns to pad their profits.

Purple

man you are so right. I live in fort worth and there are always a few maggers (including me) at the fields i play at and everyone thinks there great.

[Lorenz0666]

I dunno, it could be a good idea.

Then again, the name AGD was well known for making one of the greatest tourney guns back in the day (68 automag). So they DO have a great reputation for making high end markers. The name does stand for something, and i think that is why alot of people still buy mags, for the legendary AGD service and quality.

not unlike how pmi started their Evil line?

[tony3]

AGD needs to drop the blowforward and xvalve IMO. The xvalve is an aluminum rt valve with lvl 10. The rt valve is a 9 year old design with only 2 changes, aluminum and lvl 10. Agd should jump into the spool valve market IMO. If they made a shocker similar gun that has an amazing reg, and all those new features gun are coming stock with, it would probably sell good. If they want the gun to really take off they just need a feature or 2 that no other guns have. Like what? No idea, but they need to set their guns apart from current guns, because they are all the same nowadays. A new, good feature that will give themselves a good advantage over current guns.

[CKY_Alliance]

AGD needs to drop the blowforward and xvalve IMO. The xvalve is an aluminum rt valve with lvl 10. The rt valve is a 9 year old design with only 2 changes, aluminum and lvl 10. Agd should jump into the spool valve market IMO. If they made a shocker similar gun that has an amazing reg, and all those new features gun are coming stock with, it would probably sell good. If they want the gun to really take off they just need a feature or 2 that no other guns have. Like what? No idea, but they need to set their guns apart from current guns, because they are all the same nowadays. A new, good feature that will give themselves a good advantage over current guns.

Why drop the valve..they can keep up no problem and they already have a reg so no need for a heavy vert reg.I say keep the valve get a diffrent noid/board eyes and lvl 7.Want a flahier body get a custom body...

EDIT: not that vert regs are that heavy but gas-thrus are lighter for the wieght freaks.

[tony3]

Get rid of the valve because it is associated with everything bad about mags and nothing good about them. Get rid of the spring return, switch it to air return with an air solenoid. Image a valve with no back and an inline reg instead, the weight wouldn't be that much different.

[Codekevin0403]

tony...

getting rid of a valve on a mag is like replacing your heart with a gorilla's. The mag is built around the valve, and has been for quite a while. I don't think the valve has anything less to offer than a regular style pb gun. And anyways, for about 10 years is it?, the mag has not been completely overhauled. They just modified it a little, and look where mags are now, they are known as some of the most reliable guns in paintball as of right now. I bet if they just used an emag and put some kind or really special trick in it (don't ask me what it is because i have no idea) than it would sell great.

And anyways, what about an Xmag? is that not 'pro' level? i dunno but it was worth asking.

my 2 cents-take it or leave it

[tony3]

I guess you can say "most reliable" but in past years with introduction with Lvl 10 and ULT imo reliablity has went down. On my old rt, the lvl 10 would leak for no reason. It wasn't my fault as the user either, just random leaks.

The emag was never that good of a gun. When it came out, it chopped because of lack of lvl 10 and no hopper to feed it. They introduced warp feeds, but people were afraid to change. By the time halos were out and reliable and not sucking, not to mention by the time lvl 10 was out, the emag was out of date. The huge battery pack and the weight of them is the reason people aren't big on them.

People don't want the same old sear trigger mag. Consumers want something new that has new features but isn't too crazyily innovative. I think they should get rid of the current valve, which would be hard with dye having a lock on the spool valve patent, but I am sure they can find a way around it

[Codekevin0403]

tony i know what you're saying and i definitely think that that is a good idea, just not for mags. Anyways, the emag wasn't such a great gun, i agree, but the battery pack can be moved just so you know. And also, if it's out-of-date, then all you need is an update, not a completely redesigned gun. I bet if you just got some better software for the emag it'd still be a nice gun. All you really need is some nice software and a good trigger for the emag to be a good performing gun. Of course, there are many guns that would outperform an emag, but that's not what the mag is for. I bet a few years ago, there were also many guns that outperformed an emag, but it wasn't changed, so obviously that was not the direction that AGD wanted to approach at. And also, about the chopping, now that the halo's are out, and so are the lvl 10 bolts, it doesn't really make sense to remember the past, now does it?

Of course, my lvl 10 has leaked a couple times...randomly, but that's okay. Just need to move on and let it go.

Anyways if AGD is going to make a new line of guns, they might as well have a new name, such as DYE and Proto, since i can't imagine AGD making anything except for mags.

[JimmyBeam]

actually i think a total redesign is whats needed. using what they know now. but give it the customization potential with a small profile and the reliability everyone has come to know from AGD

[ICP]

If AGD got rid of the current valve system for something else, I would imagine they would lose a lot of business, from current owners. Sure they MIGHT gain the new "kids" that want the latest products, but then you might as well have another dye, or SP. No real following of loyal customers, just people that see something shiney and say it's the best regardless of wether it is or not, IMO

[UpliftedApe]

Look who says a Mag is inefficient has anyone done the math besides me? http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165512
th eproblem is the ability to shoot deep in to the tank, and the size of the "dump chamber" a mag uses. For size it is much better to have a HP gun because you need almost no volume, hence a mags small size and weight these days. The mag for the depth it shoots into the tank is remarkably efficient, and if you check out the links on that thread, you will see Tom has made improvements to the efficiency. As far as competition, it wouldn't be an issue for AGD to design a simple LP gun, Paintball markers are NOT rocket science, they could subcontract to some Chinese firm and bam we have the AGD ION clone BLEH!, The limitation on an E/X mag is the solenoid and sear, if anybody has visited the Devil mag website you know that an electromag is capable of competitive speeds i.e. 25bps+. The question you all should ask yourself is why is that important? Fields are all gonna start capping us down to 15BPS WDP's software upgrades are already moving towards that direction. It hurts fields to have people walk on the field with my Predator E-mag and sit back and wail away at 22BPS with ramping. AGD could easily install or have these boards for their guns, it's a simple drop in, it would probably boost thier sales to no end to do so, ramping is not cheating any more, that is one thing we die hard magers had to give up was the idea that all these people were cheating and we alone stayed the true course. this si garbage the leagues are allowing it with a max cap, and the fields don't care as long as you exercise restraint on nailing people. Trust me a ramping mag is just rediculous on the field and is more competetion than a lot of the tourney people wanted. So I agree they should do that it is a simple and cheap process, the other thing is their is a generation of people, with timmies and shockers who long for quality, even with eyes they still chop, when I showed my LVL 10 all the tourney guys they went nuts, how is it everyone seems to have forgotten this? One thing they should do and it would be a simple change is to make their valves LP. Quieter and the ability to shoot deeper in the tank would allow the mags to be part of the "IN" guns, one other thing a mag could easily do since the only need the valve to handle the pressure of the gun, is to go completely carbon fiber in construction, Frame, body Rail, and mainbody the gun would then be THE lightest marker out there, I personnally am experimenting with this process now. and I am not talking decrative carbon fiber I am talking the stuff that you here is stronger than steel construction that boeing and airbus use to construct those huge wing sections. Cutting out the milling and doing a simple vacuum infusion carbon fiber rmold would save a tremendous amount of money.


Just my $50 worth!

[ICP]

I agree with most of that, except the part about subcontracting out to some chinese firm. If they did this, how would they be different than any other company out there? Your right about the mag and it's greatness, and easy things to boost there sales,support etc. However, we are not the ones that need to be convinced. Those "tourney" players you speak of are. But unless there is mass advertising, wich requires mucho $$, it's hard to sell anything in this business, even if it's the best available.

[UpliftedApe]

I meant that as a critisim against compaines that do that, look at spyders taiwan china Junk the design is fine but it's garbage, but look at a lot of the other american marker maufactures that are garbage, I like the quality AGD has whoever they contract to. I know WDP builds their markers in house in their own machine shops, as I understand AGD contracts out to several firms. sorry if I get less understandable it's been a long day

[jewie27]

while mags have a great reputation for quality among mag owners and AOers, they have a decidedly negative reputation in the pro/tourny scene.
i've even heard TK talk about how Pros wont touch mags due to the bad rep.

i'm suggesting a new tournament friendly "coat of paint" for AGD's quality products in order to shed the bad rep that is attatched to the name Automag.

now, don't get me wrong, i'm primarily a woodsballer. but it seems to me that tournament paintball is where the money is, where the advertising is, and where little timmy's mom is dumping outrageous ammounts of coin to deck him out in all of the latest and greatest gear.


dream the impossible dream!!!

The X-Mag in my opinion, was NEVER given the chance to be recognized by the tourney scene..... Honestly if teams ever had the chance to try one, it would totally change their perception of 'Mags forever. The Mag was the first marker to ever use a anti-chop bolt.

AGD dropping out of the tourney world is what screwed 'Mags over. Mags are not recognized by anyone anymore. Just the other day a kid called my Minimag a "Shocker". Some kids don't know what to call it... They have never seen one before. No tourney support, no advertisements, bad rumors, all that doesn't help the image of AGD.

At least us here on AO know the truth about 'Mags.
I don't know what else to say about it.... It's kinda sad.
I will be a AGD fan for life. I really hope that AGD continues to grow in the future. I wish for new products to come out. Without Tom at the helm, I'm not so sure about how things are going to turn out...