DYE has Proto, should AGD have a "Pro" label?

[jewie27]

AGD needs to drop the blowforward and xvalve IMO. The xvalve is an aluminum rt valve with lvl 10. The rt valve is a 9 year old design with only 2 changes, aluminum and lvl 10. Agd should jump into the spool valve market IMO. If they made a shocker similar gun that has an amazing reg, and all those new features gun are coming stock with, it would probably sell good. If they want the gun to really take off they just need a feature or 2 that no other guns have. Like what? No idea, but they need to set their guns apart from current guns, because they are all the same nowadays. A new, good feature that will give themselves a good advantage over current guns.

I see nothing wrong with the best valve in the world. Quickest recharge, RT capability, Anti-Chop, easy maintence. For AGD to drop the X-Valve, is like saying Ford should drop the Mustang....

[ICP]

I meant that as a critisim against compaines that do that, look at spyders taiwan china Junk the design is fine but it's garbage, but look at a lot of the other american marker maufactures that are garbage, I like the quality AGD has whoever they contract to. I know WDP builds their markers in house in their own machine shops, as I understand AGD contracts out to several firms. sorry if I get less understandable it's been a long day

ohh, sorry, I mis-read, been doing that a lot lately.

[Beowulfs_Ghost]

Why is everyone focusing on a "high end" AGD lable instead of a "low end" lable.

How much more "high end" can you get than an X-Mag? It had electro, and bells and whistles, lvl 10 and eyes, etc. All any one has suggested is a complete redesign just for the sake of redesign, or cosmetics.

For the sake of perspective, AGD started with "high end" products and has essencialy stayed there. There isn't much "higher" it can go, and the higher one gets the smaller the market it can cater to. If WDP is doing everything right, then why doesn't every one own an Angle? Because for the price of 1 Angle you can buy 10 Modle-98's.

Ford doesn't exist by making GT-40's while planning on expanding into an even higher market. Ford can afford to make GT-40's because they sell alot of F-150's, Crown Victorias, the Focus, and many other arguably "low end" cars.

To continue with the car anology, what people are arguing in here is that Lamborgini needs to make a completely new car, preferably under a new nameplate, because so many people are choosing to buy Porches, Vipers and Ferraris. In the real world, there may be some point behind this. However, it is a stupid business move, to completely change _everything_ to compete in an already very competative and small market. It might work, but the odds are against it. Then you one would have to do it all again next year before one falls out of favor with one's (blatantly elitist) market.

For what ever reason the market didn't take to the X-Mag. I don't see what else they could have done better with it. Maybe AGD should follow WGP's example and try expanding "downwards".

If I was running AGD I would;

Make a new valve that had the same dimensions as the existing valves, but worked well on co2, even at the expence of faster cycling. Contract out to a Chinese company to make aluminum rails, grips frames and bodies ('cocker threads of course). Package the whole thing, call it simply "the A-Mag" and sell it for $150-200 retail.


At this point, marketing is easier. It takes less effort to sell a $200 marker as a opposed to a $1000 marker, simply because more people can afford $200. This gets one's foot into the door of a larger market, and one that is easy to keep so long as all the parts are more or less interchangable. A novice patinballer could take there entry level A-Mag and "upgrade" it with AGD's already existing top notch parts. The effect would be changing the names from refering to a specific marker and more towards a given platform. A-mag for the entry level, E-mag for the electro (entry level tourny), X-Mag for the truely high end, and another -Mag catagory for the scenario players (there pockets can be just as deep as a tourny player's).

Once a year you slap together a few parts, add some unique styling, and that will be the yearly model with the latest gizmos that the critics can play football with (until the next model year). That way, if the 2005 GT-Mag is a flop with the "tourny scene" it's no big deal, as one would still be making money hand over fist selling upgrades to all those kids that decided to by an A-Mag instead of an A-5 or Trilogy 'cocker.

This is basicaly what every one else does. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want AGD to make the latest and greatest like "everyone else", then they'll have to become like "everyone else". AGD would have to become a big brand name like SP, Kingman and WGP.

[Enemy]

does lamborginhi have a low end car?? was the mucialego not a redesign of everything before its time?? i dont remember any other awd lambos not to mention that they only make 1 model at a time meaning every new car for lambo is the only car!!

how about cadillac?? its the exact same parent company as pontiac but with an elitest attitude. does caddy have a low end hmm just a little but thats still 30plus then there is the STS, and the high end XLR.. what about the SIXTEEN? wish that would have gone to production!

you know i wonder if it would be possible to make the x valve 100% electronic not losing any recharge rate or effieciency but drastically reducing the force needed to move the bolt thus lowering the psi rating somewhere low enough to the point where the marker can actually go past 1000 psi!! AGD has proven that there was no addvantage to low pressure but ignored the biggest advantage people see in it now.. thats how much air they can use in the tank!!


idk an all electro mag would be really awesome but only a select few know the future until then we can only sit and watch.. just be happy the decision isnt yours to risk!

[Alpha]

Its been discussed before with much controversey whether paintball should be a mainstream sport, like skateboarding.

Imagine if everywhere you went, 9 year olds were wearing jerseys (not even in painabl fields), and they all had markers, and EVERYBODY who is anybody played paintball?

Now imagine that AGD is like smartparts, and has hype on their side. Every snobby 13 year old has their daddy buy them one, and everybody runs around with mags.

I personally love the enjoyment of showing up to a field and experienced plyers saying "Heh.. Look at that kid with the blender..." Then I turn around and lane them off the break.

I like how AGD is now. WE've got Rogue, Tuna and a few other dealers doing some pretty damn cool tuff. STuff that is all available to us mag lovers, but you couldn't just go to a proshop and buy a new chimera frame. Likewise its rare to see RT Pros or EMags for sale around (at least near Boston).

Right now, we have a community. Its not a mob, and I like it this way.

And to make myself clear:

Dye = Hype (Although I do like a few of their products)
AGD = Investment

[paintballbeaver]

although agd has very good products,

they arent taking steps twords keeping there company afloat

look at Smart Parts, (WGP / K2),

You wanna see a way to get agd back in the market create a gun thats around 200 dollars or lower compettion for the 98/A5 - spyder, or now the ion. and have it fast, able to run on co2 or compressed air, have eyes not a reflective... market it.

look what the trilogly has done for wgp they have placed a 130 dollar autococker out there getting more people into the sport w/ less money.

look what smart parts has done w/ the ion last time i check they have 10,000 ions on back order.....

Agd needs to establish there low end market then work up to the mid range then high end to be able to come back in the industry.

i used to see mags every where now its a treat for me to work on one or see one...


I think the best desing they could make is a automag w/ a larger dump chamber and no reg on the back include a reg like the stock cocker reg just so people can get shooting..

have it work on around 300 psi similar to the ion so it can fire well into the tank

if need be have it spring return for the low end and put an e grip on it for a step up marker like WGP is doing w/ the trilogy cocker.. then once you have the funding of the low end market step up your customers will follow.

in the last year i've seen a 90% turn around kids are sick of playing in the woods all they want is to have a place to go and play durring the weekend that isnt crowded w/ old crazy milita members.

The shop i work at has sold 65% more tourney quality guns in this year and it keeps going.

its sad that the market has gone away from quality i still remember when i got my first mag i shot the hell out of it and it never let me down..

but its time for a change..

[ApexAZ]

How would a fully carbon fiber marker be cheaper? Everything that I see for sale that uses carbon fiber is way more expensive.

[minimag03]

I think AGD is too small of a company to produce two lines of products.

[CKY_Alliance]

Its been discussed before with much controversey whether paintball should be a mainstream sport, like skateboarding.

Imagine if everywhere you went, 9 year olds were wearing jerseys (not even in painabl fields), and they all had markers, and EVERYBODY who is anybody played paintball?

Now imagine that AGD is like smartparts, and has hype on their side. Every snobby 13 year old has their daddy buy them one, and everybody runs around with mags.

I personally love the enjoyment of showing up to a field and experienced plyers saying "Heh.. Look at that kid with the blender..." Then I turn around and lane them off the break.

I like how AGD is now. WE've got Rogue, Tuna and a few other dealers doing some pretty damn cool tuff. STuff that is all available to us mag lovers, but you couldn't just go to a proshop and buy a new chimera frame. Likewise its rare to see RT Pros or EMags for sale around (at least near Boston).

Right now, we have a community. Its not a mob, and I like it this way.

And to make myself clear:

Dye = Hype (Although I do like a few of their products)
AGD = Investment

Im with you on the point that i like to have stuff others dont but the rest you kinda sound like one of the underground music people. In that i mean you dotn want your favorite band/company to get big you want them to stay underground so you can be unique and thats all fine and dandy but change is good and if you like a company why not want whats best for it??Not saying becoming a super hyped CO. is best all though it is for sales.If you are a AGD follower through and through then getting big can be to your benefit..As in new guns released from AGD. Even if its a floavor of the month type gun that can still benefit the long time agd consumers in the long run.Like i said CHANGE IS FOR THE BETTER!

[tony3]

I see nothing wrong with the best valve in the world. Quickest recharge, RT capability, Anti-Chop, easy maintence. For AGD to drop the X-Valve, is like saying Ford should drop the Mustang....

Atleast ford updates the mustang.

[JimmyBeam]

Atleast ford updates the mustang.

yea, and the new mustang.........sweeeeeeet

[AGDlover]

i've even heard TK talk about how Pros wont touch mags due to the bad rep.

ya we still play with sp guns even though most of us hate em

[Beowulfs_Ghost]

But the only thing they seem to change on Mustangs every year is the tail lights. Every one is crying that the Mag platform is 10 years old, well how long did Ford use the Fox chassis for the Mustang? How long did they use the 5.0, or the now "old" 4.6?

The next time you see a Mustang on the road, count the exhaust pipes. I'll bet that most of the Mustangs you'ld see would only have one exhaust pipe, and hence be one of the less powerfull 6-cylinder "poser" Mustangs. So even Ford caters to the "low end" with cheaper and less powerful Mustangs. And every other year or so, Ford produces a "flavor of the month" type car, like the Cobra-R, Bullit, Grande, or Mach 1, and the aftermarket Saleen packages.

There's just a general atmosphere of snobery going on here. You can't have AGD be _both_ your personal favorite independant niche producer _and_ have broad appeal. AGD can't be both Ferrari and Ford. Where does one draw the line between being producing a popular marker, yet keeping it out of the hands of everyone under 18.

AGD could very easily exist in the same sort of niche markets that CCI and Palmers exist in, or they could "sell out" for a broader base like WGP or SP.

[Codekevin0403]

thinking about this, i can't imagine why AGD would want to make a 'pro' label. Isn't it fine where it is now? If SP and DYE rely on hype and product marketing and things like that to spread their name, that's great for them, but why would AGD want to follow in their footsteps and rely on hype and product marketing to sell their products? Mags have spread their name around by mouth, and if it was up to me, i'd say they've done a pretty damn good job. I think they're fine where they are.

[Lohman446]

I see nothing wrong with the best valve in the world. Quickest recharge, RT capability, Anti-Chop, easy maintence. For AGD to drop the X-Valve, is like saying Ford should drop the Mustang....

If only AGD had hype