Has the Two Decade Climb turned Downhill?

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  • PumpPlayer
    TrojanMan on other boards
    • Feb 2005
    • 333

    #31
    The real issue behind the change in the industry is the FIELDS!

    With the number of players today, you would think that there would be larger fields to cater to them. When you think about it, though, we're left with local fields with one or two courses catering to a handful of players each. Obviously speedball fields are easier to build and maintain and encourage more liberal paint use. That doesn't mean that large woodsball fields aren't out there, they're just harder to find in some areas. Especially those areas where property values and taxes are high. The nearest local field to me is actually built in a swamp because that's the only place that was economically feasable because homes couldn't be built there. Land costs are high, thus speedball fields are becoming more common. As a result, the sport is becoming less newbie-friendly. Large fields are the lifeblood of the industry and they are few and far between (Plus it costs at least $35/day to rent equipment and play there - that's a lot of money, people.)

    Think of another sport with high land area requirements, expensive equipment, a 'stigma' associated with the professionals of the sport and an ever-growing popularity... Golf!

    You can easily spend $100 for a round of golf without even trying. If you use two sleeves of balls at $10 a pop plus $50 worth of greens fees and add in other expenses, it's not cheap. A good set of clubs can well exceed the $2000 mark and that's not even counting shoes, clothes and other items needed to play. With high land requirements and everything else thrown in, it looks a LOT like paintball. Only it isn't. What's the difference? ADVERTIZING!

    Golf is advertized to a demographic that has money and is willing to spend it even if just for the status that playing golf offers, whether they are good or not. Golf has heroes as well and an international competition between them. Paintball has neither advertizing nor heroes. Ask anyone on the street if they know who *tourney player name* is and they'll look at you like a deer in headlights. Then ask them if they know who Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson is. Ask them if they can remember anything about a Tippmann 98c. Now ask them if they know what a 'Big Bertha' is.


    So ok, why compare a small, basically fledgling sport like Paintball with something like golf that has hundreds of years of history and a hundred times greater market size? To both point the way and also give hope. Golf is a rediculous game that nobody in their right mind should want to play. Even those who play the sport fully admit this. Yet it's amazingly popular and turns billions of dollars in revenue every year. It could be argued that paintball could easily grow to such popularity. There's hope because if golf can do it, paintball certainly can!

    More poignantly, we need to know how to bring the sport to that level. It's going to take one thing and one thing only: Good advertizing. The market is out there and waiting. The only advertizing for paintball is through paintball magazines and paintball-related websites. More people know about paintball through the sporting goods section at Wal-Mart than they do from a magazine ad. It's only going to take one brave company to stand up, take the lead and advertize sub-$100 full player's packages of decent quality through a large medium.

    Sports Illustrated ran an article on the history of paintball a few months ago. It was a fantastic, well-written article and got the reader very interested in paintball. Good publicity, you may say. But what surprised me is that there was not one single advertizement for a paintball field, company or manufacturer in the entire magazine. I understand that an ad in SI is very pricey, but it would only take one. In fact, all it would have taken is a line that read, "For information on buying paintball equipment, go to www.______.com"

    The industry missed a big opportunity there and perhaps, just perhaps, it's not quite time yet. If we want paintball to grow, like anything else it needs to be advertized. When the time comes, we'll see an advertizement for a paintball company in a national-exposure format. On that day, paintball's popularity will explode once again. Until it is advertized widely, paintball will experience the same problems it always has.
    Before: "You're playing with WHAT?"
    After: "Crap! It's that guy with the pump!"

    Comment

    • UThomas
      Registered User

      • Dec 2002
      • 767

      #32
      But now the age ranges have nowhere else to expand

      Exactly, which is why paintball companies now have to rely on market penetration instead of just market growth. As such, they are competing against each other much more directly and we will see a more companies that were successful in the growth phase fall by the wayside if they can't drive their costs down and make themselves more attractive to the wider public.
      Thomas http://www.thomaspaintball.com http://www.youtube.com/user/Thomas4093

      Comment

      • Lohman446
        Useful posts: 7
        • Jun 2003
        • 9315

        #33
        Golf isn't a fair historical comparison. Without the support of Franklin Delanoar (sp) Roosevelt (I think it was FDR, I know it was a former president) we would not have the number of public clubs we have today, with easy access for all and providing a spot for most anyone who wants to golf can without a being part of a "club" FDR was fundamental in putting golf where it was today, I just don't see any wildly popular president investing political capital to get paintball to that point. Besides golf was already established... FDR just helped make it a sport that more of America could play. Its not like there is a "lower economic scale" that we could target well with paintball.

        Just my opinion... it could be very wrong of course
        "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

        Comment

        • PBX Ronin 23
          Registered User
          • Jul 2004
          • 518

          #34
          Nice post PumpPlayer.

          UThomas, I agree with you from an economic standpoint, reliance on market growth seem tenous at best at this moment and penetrating new markets would be the way to go.

          But what new markets can we possibly look at? The Pacific Rim paintball market seems to be developing and the region can flex some serious economic muscle. The Latin American market seems to be growing as well but the impetus seems to come from the wealthy segment of the local economy. Can we transcend class and economic barriers in the developing countries in Latin America and make the sport more readily accessible to the masses? That, in and of itself, is a tough question to answer. The European market is still underdeveloped compared to the American market and should represent a growth area in the next several years. Besides those three regions, I really don't see any other regions in the world worth pursuing by virtue of each regions economic health.

          Perhaps the current bevy of paintball companies can be whittled down to the few who have the foresight and the capital resources to reach out and penetrate these underdeveloped markets. We see Dye establishing two new outposts abroad. NPS has further entrenched themselves in the European, Latin American and Asian markets. I'm sure K2 and the other big boys see this too. Invariably, the industry will have a global impact in terms of where consumer spending will be directed to in the forecoming years. But can the industry sustain their current levels domestically? That's the question that begs to be answered.

          What are your thoughts on this?
          Last edited by PBX Ronin 23; 04-27-2005, 04:26 PM.
          /s/ Mel C. Maravilla
          PBX Battlezone
          PBX Paintball Station Inc.
          PBX Ballistix Lab
          PBX@NYC Paintball

          Comment

          • Tunaman
            Specialized AGD Tech

            • Dec 2000
            • 8643

            #35
            Well the way i see it, mags suck...and they chop too. And they aren't as fast as any other marker...so they are dead...like the rest of the paintball industry.

            Tell that to the imaginary postman that brings me all of these imaginary mags that no one uses any more...because they suck...and they chop...and they arent fast enough.

            The paintball world should open their eyes a bit. Still totally jammed up here...as always.
            Now...if i only had a MQ VALVE!!!!
            Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. [email protected]
            Tunamart

            Comment

            • hardr0ck68
              I miss Tom
              • Oct 2001
              • 783

              #36
              Paintball is not a fun sport to get into anymore! When i started their were always "old timers" at the feild willing to help with advice, spare parts, tips and whatnot. As a newbi i was treated well, and you know what, after they shot me (generally only once per elimination....find that today!) in the dead box they shook my hand and chatted with me.

              So i got hooked, this was a sceen i loved, good people, good times, and lots of excitement...fast forward 8 years (yes this was only 8 years ago...sigh). Think about how you see newbis treated? Over shot by some "agg" idiot who himself was a newbi untill mommy and daddy bought him a ramping marker for x-mas. Then after the game its all about bragging to your buddies, and sucking eachothers ====) . Todays paintball is an "X-game" with all the bull crap "agg" junk that is attached.

              On top of all that, it seems the biggest companys seem hell bent on making paintball cheap for the top 1% of ballers at an extra cost to the bottom 99%. I think the idea is they show some people making money at the game so hundreds of thousands more will bankrupt themselves trying to reach that level. Instead they might try to sell a decent case of paint for $20....then you might see some growth.
              Tom was the last of a now extinct breed, a breed of players who build a community, a breed of owners who gave to the sport never taking more than what they deserved. I hope to see you at the feild again some day....

              Comment

              • PBX Ronin 23
                Registered User
                • Jul 2004
                • 518

                #37
                I fell ya Rocco....I feel ya.

                The close-knit-ness of the paintball community has somewhat deminished in a lot of ways. I know where you're coming from.
                /s/ Mel C. Maravilla
                PBX Battlezone
                PBX Paintball Station Inc.
                PBX Ballistix Lab
                PBX@NYC Paintball

                Comment

                • UThomas
                  Registered User

                  • Dec 2002
                  • 767

                  #38
                  , reliance on market growth seem tenous at best at this moment and penetrating new markets would be the way to go.

                  I meant more from the perspective of: if the market is not growing (or growing slowly), the market penetration will be what people fight over (aka: market share). So this will drive companies more directly against each other that might not have been before when the pie was growing for everyone.

                  Foreign expansion is one option, though paintball is a damn expensive sport for a lot of countries (USA! USA! USA! ) I'd say that firms need to do market studies and find where the growth is and what the users stats are. I personally don't know. Could be that 70% of the volume is done at the under $300 category, I have no idea. But customer and market knowledge; knowing how they make decisions and what they value, are going to be critical in a time where technology is all "good enough" and there is little true differentiation.

                  Just my 2c. I'd be curious to see some true industry studies.
                  Thomas http://www.thomaspaintball.com http://www.youtube.com/user/Thomas4093

                  Comment

                  • Lohman446
                    Useful posts: 7
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 9315

                    #39
                    Originally posted by UThomas
                    , reliance on market growth seem tenous at best at this moment and penetrating new markets would be the way to go.

                    I meant more from the perspective of: if the market is not growing (or growing slowly), the market penetration will be what people fight over (aka: market share). So this will drive companies more directly against each other that might not have been before when the pie was growing for everyone.

                    Foreign expansion is one option, though paintball is a damn expensive sport for a lot of countries (USA! USA! USA! ) I'd say that firms need to do market studies and find where the growth is and what the users stats are. I personally don't know. Could be that 70% of the volume is done at the under $300 category, I have no idea. But customer and market knowledge; knowing how they make decisions and what they value, are going to be critical in a time where technology is all "good enough" and there is little true differentiation.

                    Just my 2c. I'd be curious to see some true industry studies.
                    My impression of paitnball in the past has been a "guessing" game as to what will sell. I am not sure that there have been that many industry studies, perhaps simple looks at what sold in the past and making an educated guess from there. It just seems to me, well that paintball companies are not running a sound business plan. Sure they survived during years of phenomal and abnormal growth and expansion, can they survive if it is not there, and perhaps a slight shrinkage even due to changing economic circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that very few of the manufacturers (the big names) have run a good long term business plan. As market forces move them away from high percentage markup on the top end of the line... and shrink the gap between top and bottom line will they be able to survive? Another issue.. where is marketing? I see more marketting for golf balls than I do for paintball markers. There is no "household" name when it comes to paintball. I'm surprised that seemingly market savvy customers have not tried to move into the marketplace harder, and expand it. Instead they seem to be content with fighting over the existing market.
                    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                    Comment

                    • UThomas
                      Registered User

                      • Dec 2002
                      • 767

                      #40
                      guessing" game as to what will sell. I am not sure that there have been that many industry studies, perhaps simple looks at what sold in the past and making an educated guess from there.

                      I don't know. I think that in the early growth stages of the industry it was intuitive what people were interested in. Faster guns, anti chop features, etc. Now that that has topped out to a large extent, now comes the hard part. When there is not a clear technology path, when industry growth has slowed, and when prices continue to drop. That is the challenge faced by small to mid level companies. Looks like shops like AGD are going niche market (scenarios) like Palmers did a while ago. I mean if you think about it, it is amazing to me that Palmers actually exists in the industry right now (and that is not a knock on them, actually it is a compliment).

                      Sure they survived during years of phenomal and abnormal growth and expansion, can they survive if it is not there, and perhaps a slight shrinkage even due to changing economic circumstances

                      Yea, thats a good question. You want to position yourself as a dominant industry player (Brass Eagle) to really make sure you survive the shakeout, otherwise who knows? Can you adapt the product line from the early adopters of the 90's to the early and late majority of the 2000's? Depends on if you know what they value, and are able to drive your costs down (because that is one thing we KNOW they value).

                      Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that very few of the manufacturers (the big names) have run a good long term business plan.

                      They haven't had to because they could rely on R&D and fat industry growth, the former of which is experiencing diminishing returns these days, the later also slowing substantially (I think, again, I haven't seen any studies on it).

                      There is no "household" name when it comes to paintball.

                      I don't know, companies like DYE seem to be doing a pretty good job at selling the sizzle and not the stake. You can tell companies like that are the ones that are going to be successful. They may not be the highest tech, but they seem to be in tune with the customer and marketing focused. Of course they are also a bit of a trend, so maybe they will go the way of "NO FEAR" shirts when everybody else can match their performance.

                      Though it begs the question, Smart Parts has effectively been doing negative marketing the last year or two, yet I imagine their sales are fine. What do customers really value these days? Lots of inexpensive ION's are getting sold...
                      Thomas http://www.thomaspaintball.com http://www.youtube.com/user/Thomas4093

                      Comment

                      • master_alexander
                        im a gun pimp :D
                        • Sep 2004
                        • 2462

                        #41
                        now i havent read all of this, but from what i think...


                        the automag has been around for around 20 years. There have been so much advancements on this technology and the automag has still remained a great marker. But then again, the master will eventually be passed up. I think that this master (automag) has come to it's time, not yet exactly. it will always remain great in the eyes of thoes who understand, mostly in thoswe who play "old school style". And have been using them for years.
                        "Ah yes, I have one of the 32*rebels that I always take to big scenario games. It keeps the truck from rolling if I have to park on a hill." - automikey

                        Comment

                        • Jeffy-CanCon
                          veteran rec player
                          • May 2003
                          • 1309

                          #42
                          Originally posted by PBX Ronin 23
                          ...

                          UThomas, I agree with you from an economic standpoint, reliance on market growth seem tenous at best at this moment and penetrating new markets would be the way to go.

                          But what new markets can we possibly look at? The Pacific Rim ... Latin America ... The European market ... Besides those three regions, I really don't see any other regions in the world worth pursuing by virtue of each regions economic health.

                          ...

                          What are your thoughts on this?
                          Is there enough money in the Pacific Rim, latin America and in Europe to allow people to play afford paintball? Most people there have a finite amount of disposable income. Given the per-capita GDP of most of those countries, paintball is really only affordable to their middle class. Still, those regions have a combined population of a billion or more, so the potential is there, even if the target demographic is a small percentage.

                          The few people I've talked to who played in Europe (RKL, manike) say that there is very little regular-recreational play there. People rent occasionally, or play tourneys. That would have to change, I think.

                          Jeff P
                          Secretary
                          The Canadian Contingent Paintball Club
                          Cousins - EMR - PaintStorm - Odyssey - StraightShot

                          Comment

                          • PBX Ronin 23
                            Registered User
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 518

                            #43
                            UThomas, in either case, both interpretations for your statement seems to apply.

                            Market penetration may also be construed that reaching out to non-related industries where the target demographics may be identical. There's always been a strong co-relation in the past between Dungeons and Dragons players and paintballers.

                            Perhaps it's time for the industry to search and develop such markets and to 'penetrate' them effectively.
                            /s/ Mel C. Maravilla
                            PBX Battlezone
                            PBX Paintball Station Inc.
                            PBX Ballistix Lab
                            PBX@NYC Paintball

                            Comment

                            • voodooaddict
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 7

                              #44
                              Originally posted by hardr0ck68
                              Paintball is not a fun sport to get into anymore! When i started their were always "old timers" at the feild willing to help with advice, spare parts, tips and whatnot. As a newbi i was treated well, and you know what, after they shot me (generally only once per elimination....find that today!) in the dead box they shook my hand and chatted with me.
                              At 26 I find myself an "Old timer" now (10 years of play). I do most of the above. Give tips for those that look receptive to it. Also talk with the players after I tagged them out ... and make sure that I didn't over shoot. I play rec ball excusivly at the fields because I enjoy the mentoring. And find it rewarding and relaxing after a long week of 12+h workdays. I leave tourney paintball for the other guys.

                              This is one of the reasons why I still use the good Ol VL 2000 loaders. Over 50% of the people out there are new to the sport. I don't have any need to lay 15+bps onto thier bunkers. I want to help build confidence in new players ... not demoralize them.
                              Last edited by voodooaddict; 05-02-2005, 07:45 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Codekevin0403
                                Whoa we can do this????
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 269

                                #45
                                paintball has finally reached it's pinnacle after 20 years...well isn't it about time?

                                In order to compete today, the prices for a good marker can reach over a grand. That's steep for most of the population of the U.S.! jeez. It's guns like the ion's and wrath's that keep the sport alive in my opinion.

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