When is enough enough

[wimag]

I think.. at some point we all step back and say "how in the world did we get to where we are" the answer is we never drew a line that "enough is enough" This is not a whiners point of view.. maybe it is. Its presented for a serious discussion on where we are. Do was have enough time to say enough is enough or are we now in the point of looking at each other and going, hmm how'd we get here? You want to label it as whining thats fine.. its a point of view, and I was looking for other points of view when I started this thread.

we got where we are due to people like yourself. the line is there somewhere but most people on this board wont say it so I will.
You suck dude. You openly admit you cheat, your team mates cheat but yet you justify it.
Wow your on a team of cheaters, good for you, nice reputation to have.
Why should you care about rate of fire your gonna wipe, rub it ro slide it off anyways.

[Lohman446]

we got where we are due to people like yourself. the line is there somewhere but most people on this board wont say it so I will.
You suck dude. You openly admit you cheat, your team mates cheat but yet you justify it.
Wow your on a team of cheaters, good for you, nice reputation to have.
Why should you care about rate of fire your gonna wipe, rub it ro slide it off anyways.

Where did I ever justify it, where have I done anything but admit is wrong? Have I gone along for the ride... yep, I did. Am I happy about the ride, the fact that I was allowed to, or even the fact that I did? Not at all. Is there anyone to blame for my actions besides myself? Not a bit. To those that say cheating isn't that big of a deal. I watched a team disintegrate because of good reffing and cheating... I have an understanding that says I won't cheat anymore. Does it effect skill? Well after being decimated in last tournament we will be dropped a bracket for local tournaments. We fell from competetive to a joke in a single tournament, taking 80 points in penalties in one day, and having a player suspended. Two games in I told the team anyone who cheated that day I wasn't playing with anymore. I decided then that I am playing solely for fun, and who cares enough to cheat.

I'm not justifying it. Had there been more attitudes like yours perhaps cheating would not be as part of the game as it is today. That doesn't justify my own actions, but it does serve as a case in point. I was playing with a team one day as a fill in spot. My teammate came over to me to complain that the ref had called him out on a questionable hit. I shrugged and told him it was no big deal, cause I had handled what was likely a hit on the other side by sliding. I had never looked, but you get the idea, had there been a hit it went away. This guy looked at me and smiled.... it improved his outlook of me at that tournament. Improved... how ridiculous of that?

We justify cheating "we have to to be competetive", "everyone does it", "its how the game is played", "its my duty to my team to do the best I can to win".... its still wrong. Yet all these jsutifications are accepted. ITs a joke. Cheating is wrong... no way aruodn it. If more people, like you, stood up and told those who cheat that it made them look stupid, immature, and you thought less of them because of it... you might get there attention. I don't play the game to win, I play for glory, for excitement.... I can get that without cheating...

[REDRT]

As with anything. One may have the fastest marker out there, but it is how you use it. I like my ramping marker, but I never bonus balled someone to death with it either. True semi or ramping I have seen them both used inappropriately. Every marker even one with a ramping board you still have control. Maybe instead of bashing the markers or the marker companys that make them the emphases should be on the player that loses their control. Punish them with lose of points, DQ'ed, kicked out for the day or stiffer penalties. Resently one of my best paintball friends lost his control. I challenged him on it and he got upset saying some hurtful things in reply. The respect I once had was/is gone. I never expected him to react like that! He doesn't talk to me anymore. I really don't care, because as things picked up and are still getting faster. I feel control of ones actions might be the single most important thing to consider while playing. To be honest if I or any member of my team ever intentionally bonus balled someone in excess like my former friend did, it would be the end of the day for that player. Maybe even off the team.

[hitech]

Enforcing the rules would go a long way toward fixing a lot of the current problems. Oddly enough, it seems that the only tournaments capable are the small local ones. Maybe it's because the bottom line doesn't drive the decisions.

[JKR]

Somewhere back at the beginning of the thread, it was asked why we played paintball. I continue to play paintball because I associate with guys that play with honor, call hits, ask for nearby players to check for paint, and expect the same from everyone else. Honestly, if my only source of paintball was a walk-on crowd that consistently cheats and plays unsafely, I probably wouldn't be playing now. Yes, the major reason that I continue to play paintball is the renegade group that I play with. I will wager we play a much safer game than most pay-to-play fields and have more fun doing it. We enforce velocity and goggle rules and seriously frown on any form of bad attitude.

I do play at a local field with walk-on players but thankfully we seem to be behind the times in regards to equipment cheats. Heck, recently I played there and out of the 40 or so walkons, about 7 or 8 of us were toting mech Automags! I can honestly say I have never faced a ramping 'gun.

[REDRT]

The one thing that has me confused is many of the newer markers that are set in Semi mode shoot quicker than a ramping marker. So if the ball cap is set at 15bps why care if it ramping or not?

[alooney11]

man if we dont take a look at our gear soon, something very bad is going to happen for the industry.

[bound for glory]

and then everyone who justified ramps and overshoting, like the idiot who said "it does'nt hurt anymore, we like it" or something like that, is gonna say "why are people coming down on paintball?". really lohman, you want to know when enough is enough? go back and read some peoples posts. really read them. justify cheating because they play tournys? i "have to" because the other team is gonna do it? what kind of bum blames someone else for their own rotteness? i play fair because thats who i am. nobody said to me back in march of 1985, now don't wipe a hit off. nobody EVER had to tell me, once semi's came along, don't overshot. what a bunch of losers. and don't tell me not to cry about it. i been alive longer than most of the "tourny" players who post here. i try to teach my scout unit(57} to play fair.don't overshot someone. don't steal the enjoyment from someone else. i took my troop to a pa. airsoft weekend and guess what? atleast the airsofters play with a set hounour system. if you cheat, you leave. lets see a feild owner in paintball do that...

[Beemer]

Whats fuzzy logic

Well to answer the question at hand I say enough is enough when you are shooting faster then you can pull[thats just my opinion I could be wrong] but it is a known standard.

7. Most of you will say you would never play paintball at 30 BPS. Your addicted, its just like heroin, you don't really care if it kills you. See #2 above.

Being hit multiple times may be unsafe, but who knows this? I've never seen any tests or investigations into it.

Whats the deal cant prove or disprove. Ya ok. thats the problem nobody is doing any testing or are they???????????????

These quotes from here...http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ghlight=Heroin

Ask Manike one day to show you the goggle testing he did to disprove the "masks won't take it" defence.

Ya I saw that vid. That was a real good test[not] Then ask him how much paint got thru the mask then ask him about soft tissue exposure. Then ask him about ASTM and you will get this.

I and NPS are always working on ways to make paintball safer.
We also have a new barrel plug coming that actually works and conforms to the ASTM standards (most/many barrel plugs do not). These barrel plugs work better in the majority of circumstances and have advantages over the barrel condoms.
Safety IS a priority for us in this industry.
ASTM STANDARDS ARE VOLUNTARY.

From here.... http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...3&page=1&pp=40


If Im going into a high risk hobby I think I would have the high risk gear to go with it. [ie. roll bar, fire suit, engine shut off, HANS etc..etc..

Arent these Mandatory to even participate? Why? So If Murphy stops by I just might live to Play another day. But wait this is painball its like Chinese Down Hill[there are no rules] well there is, just very little compliance.

I see alot of fuzzy logic in this thread. Must be an I.A.D.S.P.B.P. thing. Sad thing is it applies to me to.

Just for the record again, all my guns meet ASTM standards, one shot one pull. AD test etc.. etc..Why? Because I care and when Murphy comes around I cant say I dont or didnt know or dont care. My umbrella policy is paid up to, is yours?

Oh ya as an old timer I know that the only place I can fire my gun in any way no matter what is the range or the field[hot zone] any place else is cold or safe zone and my gun is completely shut down. Air off, gun degassed breech empty, safty on, barrel cover on. Why?
Because I care about YOUR safety, do you care about mine??????????? Thats the big one.


Key words I noticed in this thread by more then One, ASTM, SAFETY, Governing Body.

I cant prove anything till I get more info from some Neurologists. Anybody want to let me shoot them in the head and neck 15 to 20 times at 300fps at 12 to 15 feet? Didnt think so. Its really only the one hit Im looking for so the rest dont count.

I could say more but you know or dont care.


Play Safe
Play Fair
HAVE FUN

Peace Out

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