That's it, I've had enough!

[Lohman446]

True 'nuf.

I do think, however, that even here on AO, Mags get crapped on more then they should. They're sweet little guns for the most part, but for some reason people are determined to focus on the negative.

Any young padawan worth his midiclorians should know that's the wrong thing to do.

To some degree... but many of us, when considering the negative and comparisons to other things where the mag is not the greatest, are not discounting what the mag is...

[Chronobreak]

i dont see much of ths here, as i don on pbn from certain individuals(possibly banned from AO ) that just troll and rag on mags.

even when its not asked for or necesary.

most of the people that say mags are "inneficent" etc dont know what they are talking about

it just so happens the mag is about THE MOST efficent gun made. except for the minor fact its HP operation so you lose 500-700 psi in the tank depending on your setup.

the mag really should be taken for what it is.

a great pice of machinery that requires little to no maintenance and is built like a tank.
always fires straight, however it isnt the fastest little gimmick gun on the market impressing newbs with high bps claims and false advertising/hype

but yeah i agree

[Lohman446]

it just so happens the mag is about THE MOST efficent gun made. except for the minor fact its HP operation so you lose 500-700 psi in the tank depending on your setup.

This is not a personal attack.

I recently stated the mag was inefficient, when asked for numbers the fact of the matter was I could not provide them...

I disagree wtih you, but admit to the possibility that my perceptions are just wrong. What does a mag get in shots out of a 68/45... and what amount of air per 100 shots (or whatever) does it use? How does this compare to other guns? I am seriously curious on this one, and would like to see an agreement made on the numbers as to whether or not mag efficiency, or lack there of, is a myth.

[Chronobreak]

i agree...maybe we can get one of the elders to chime in on this

this was just a general oberservation i noticed, as well as shot to shot how much psi me and the other guns friends use are using per pod or hopper/game

ive been pushing around 975 out of my gun with 600 psi left in the tank

still maybe not the greatest efficeny of anygun but darn good and better than most.

[thecavemankevin]

I swear to god I'm gonna nut

you can't piss into Mr. Coffee and expect to get Tasters Choice

god, if only we could still have sigs

[Will Wood]

Nothing like a good rant...


Yea, some people suck, they just complain and whine and all that. They expect everyone to kowtow to them and do whatever they say.
Considering what they have at the current level is a privilage, demanding more is stupid, yea.

Sometimes it's for the good - as mentioned with some AGD developements. But yea it's annoying most of the time, and won't lead to anything practicle/worth it.

[SummaryJudgement]

[deathstalker]

It feels good doesn't it, liking something for what it is if everybody could do that I wouldn't be typing right now.

It's been pointed out before, but it needs to be stated again. If people had not complained, we wouldn't have the lvl 10, ULE bodies and rails, ULT kits, etc. They way you complain, I'll be mad at you if you use anything but a Splatmaster or Nel-Spot.

To side with you on the efficiency issue, I don't think people understand the concept of relativity (no, not the theory). Just because another marker is more efficient does not mean a Mag is inefficient. If your car gets 25 mpg and I get 27, this does not make your car inefficient simply because mine is more efficient.

Every time I step on the field, no matter what marker I'm using and how much paint I carry, I am confident I can shoot every single ball I take out there. It doesn't matter to me that there is more air left in my tank if I'm using one of my 'cockers. It doesn't matter that even if the tanks are at the same pressure, I know I can shoot deeper into the tank with a 'cocker than I can with my E-Mag. What matters to me is getting through a whole game without having to worry about having enough air to shoot all my paint.

Even my old Mini was great on air. I could bring a full Revy and 5X140 pods, and could shoot them all with a 45/45. Last 50 or so shots did have noticeable dropoff, but I never had to leave a game because my marker wouldn't cycle.

[peewee]

WOW!!!! Thanks for the rant at least I'm not the only one feeling that way. Very, very tired of the whining. Seems that alot of the people crying dont own mags any more. Personally I dont frequent forums for markers that I dont use. Kind of like being a honda owner belonging to a vett club. If I do buy chance ghost a site that I use to frequent for a while I dont sit & P!$$ & moan about the product.

[master_alexander]

i dont notice mags being inefficent, the 3 that i shoot, but then again i get all day air...

[Jaan]

I'm pretty new here, but I've had a 'Mag for 10 years now and I've keep up with what was going on in paintball the whole time, even though I haven't played much in recent years. All I can tell you is how it's felt being a fan of AGD and seeing what's happened over the years.

First, I think the 'Mag (or at least the valve) is a bit like the venerable small block Chevy engine. There used to be a bunch out there, and they're very reliable and there have been some changes but after a while what can you talk about? How many times do you have to discuss the soft camshafts from the 70's and how the "henco en Mexico" blocks suffer from bad core shift. That's why I stopped reading hot rod magazines years ago, there was nothing new to learn, they were just covering the same old ground over and over. Maybe that's what the forum population is suffering from ... a general lack of nothing new to talk about.

Second, I think a lot of what is being said might be coming from a feeling of frustration and stagnation. I remember when there used be be a lot of Automags on the wall of my local paintball store, now there are none. As everyone else kept moving along AGD didn't really keep up (for whatever reason). I know how this makes *me* feel. I would LOVE a nice new flashy 'Mag but I can't justify the cost. I have an old 1970 Cutlass S out back I would love to fix up too, but as a practical matter I can't spend $20k to do that (even if the results would be spectacular), I have to spend $13k on a brand new Toyota instead. When I think of the cost to build a nice new(ish) 'Mag, I can't help but consider getting an Ion for less money.

OKay, I've got to admit, it's annoying hearing people complaing about air. Air is cheap. Get a fill station already jesh (c:

People around here (for the most part) love thier 'Mags. It reminds me of how people feel about thier kids ... overly critical sometimes. Because you love your kids so much thier shortcomings hurt you a lot more. You also love them so much you want to see them become very successful ... you want to see them cure cancer or become the first really cool president. Perhaps people complain about thier 'Mags for the same reason the women in our lives nag and nag nad nag and nag and nag endlessly. It's done out of love

[Target Practice]

It's been pointed out before, but it needs to be stated again. If people had not complained, we wouldn't have the lvl 10, ULE bodies and rails, ULT kits, etc. They way you complain, I'll be mad at you if you use anything but a Splatmaster or Nel-Spot.

I'd call that progress, rather then a stream of complaints.

I think what he's saying is that even with all the improvements, people still find stuff to complain about.

Take LX. When I first got LX, I was impressed. Very impressed, actually. Sure it cut down on "efficiency", but what the hell, I could stick my thumb in the breech, and let me tell you, that is one hell of a party trick. Also, a perfectly tuned ULT is a neat little piece of equipment. So we got ULT, but that also cuts down on "efficiency", IIRC. So we got these two improvements, and what do people say?

WAH WAH I ONLY GET X AMOUNT OF SHOTS OF MY 45/3000 WAH WAH WHY CAN'T I SHOOT MORE WAH WAH

I'm not saying the AGD design is perfect. No design is. But goddamn it, if you're going to play/buy/use one accept the bad with the good. We don't need to be reminded every damn thread about it.

Fake Edit: I put efficiency in quotation marks because people don't seem to know what it means. But, since we're using the incorrect definition, I figured it would be better to just go with continuity rather than correctness.

[yakitori]

Ive seen ppl put their fingers in angel breechs and I can do it w/ my viking too. Although the lvl 10 is a lot softer if caught at the first stage of forward movement.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

Hey Our Team is all Woods ball, we use speed ball for warm up and practice. I shoot a MAG and will only shoot a MAG. a teammate shoots a DM4 with the whatchcallit boardbounceathingy addon.

well he thought he was the sickest thing on the planet. well Marko and I with our Mags, His X and MY TUNA tuned, can rip him up. we can squash an ion and send them crying.

now we play in the woods, so more air means more paint, more play, more punishment. we dont foolaround. 114/4500 let-m-rip...

come try us on for size spart parts...

AGD all the way, thats it, always and forever. we can build them and fix them in seconds. they never fail. in the rain, the snow, sleet, like a mailman.

Tom is KING, Tuna is the Prince...

if you can carry your gun, you have little arms, thats what im always saying!
Eric

[sanity]

Every gun has its high points and its low points - and this includes mags.

Personally i just left an ebladed cocker that could push 1500 shots per fill on my 68/4500 maxflo to rejoin the mag family, and i am well aware that i will probably be lucky to get 65% of that, but i am still happy with what i have. This is because all of the other features that make a mag a mag outweighed this issue in my personal situation.

Prioritize what you are looking for in a gun and go buy whatever makes you the happiest and fits your playing style.

out.