That's it, I've had enough!

[RoadDawg]

This is not a personal attack.

I recently stated the mag was inefficient, when asked for numbers the fact of the matter was I could not provide them...

I disagree wtih you, but admit to the possibility that my perceptions are just wrong. What does a mag get in shots out of a 68/45... and what amount of air per 100 shots (or whatever) does it use? How does this compare to other guns? I am seriously curious on this one, and would like to see an agreement made on the numbers as to whether or not mag efficiency, or lack there of, is a myth.

Well it wasn't a 68/45 but with my 45/45 flatline on a 4.0 ULE'd Emag I got on average 800 shots with the occasional 900+. I would purposely turn down my output pressure (700-750)because reactivity was not a necessity with the electronic trigger. So in my case it wasn't terribly inefficent but if I were to use a preset... you better believe it would waste air on reactivity the trigger didn't need (I removed the trigger rod to prevent bounce).

I've also used a 48/3k on a Retro Micromag & minimag. I got on average 500 shots per fill. Overall I prefer adjustables if I'm using a mag of any kind so that way I can control the output and save a few "extra" shots here and there.

Now to the original post. The mag gets flack because compared to some "better" guns the areas it lacks is a major problem. It used to be too heavy, a blender or just plain looking and not customizable. Now for the most parts those areas are fixed. BUT... the negative aspects are still there, i.e. shots per tank. Only way to get people to stop the complaints... is too... FIX those problem areas. (goes for all markers not just mags)

To a person who is comparing between say a Emag and a Viking. What is a big difference between the two? Efficency and or possibly rof (depending on software etc). Is it bad to say that mags should improve of their supposed inefficency? Not at all. Compared to those two the mag is inefficent. Which gives the Viking an advantage in that area. Does that mean the Viking is the better marker? NOPE.

Drink a cold one and relax... it's nothing to raise your blood pressure over.

[tyrion2323]

I think that a big reason for the anti-mag movement on AO has been to repudiate the "Mags only" mentality that a lot of people have here. How many threads have you seen that go like this:

USER1: Hey AO! Just got my new Intimidator/Omen/Bushmaster/Whatever. Whaddya think?

USER2: Sell it and get a mag. Magz rule!!!


I know I see them all too often. There's a big gripe about 'hype' on AO, and how so many electro-guns are hyped up...yet AGD uses just as much hype. How can it be that Spyders have been using aluminum bodies for 10 years, but the minute AGD starts using aluminum bodies, it's a miracle! ULE!

You state that we need to appreciate things for what they are, yet everytime a new invention comes out, they get insulted and degraded and called all sorts of names. Huge discussions break out, and people get into screaming matches over things neither party influenced or enacted. For the longest time, anything but a mag was deemed hype...finally it became okay to say that other markers than mags were not only not hype, but were superior in many ways to automags.

[SlartyBartFast]

you better believe it would waste air on reactivity the trigger didn't need (I removed the trigger rod to prevent bounce).

The reactivity in a Mag trigger does not use any extra air. No air is vented and no pressure is vented. No energy is wasted.

What you experience is the pressure from the tank trying to open the on/off. Nothing more.

Final charged dump chamber pressure is the same regardless of input pressure, and it's the balance between charged pressure and residual pressure after firing than determines efficiency.

Unless someone has data to prove me wrong...

[GT]

another difference between AGD and BE is that BE makes money...by the millions

AGD doesnt or didnt make money by the millions? That would be impossible and really really hard to believe!

[GT]

This is a mag forum, if you dont like it LOG THE HELL OUT!!!!

[yakitori]

This is a general paintball talk forum. It just so happens that a lot of AOers think ALL paintball talk here should pertain to mags only.

So a question for you?

Say, Ive owned plenty of mags before. Yet, Ive ended up selling them. Lets say that while I owned mags I visited this site and grew fond of it. So, now that I dont own mags anymore, Im not allowed to talk about positive OR negative aspects of the guns design. Cannot I not do that w/ ANY gun. ALL guns have a positive and negative, thats a fact. Are you implying that I should no longer visit this site cause I dont own mags anymore. Thats seems to be the general attitude I have been getting lately here on AO. Used to not be that way. Used to, mag owners and AO was an open minded group of individuals w/ more knowledge of other guns. Lately they have been acting like a bunch of self righteous narrowminded know it alls. Chill out and stop acting like ppl dont belong here. This is the internet.

[SlartyBartFast]

This is a general paintball talk forum. It just so happens that a lot of AOers think ALL paintball talk here should pertain to mags only.

I've seen far more non-mag threads start with a putdown of the (non-existent) orthodox mag-fanboys and demanding that they stay out of the thread. Or, whining, moaning, and pissing when seen by others as pure complaining dismissed as "mag lovers who can't handle the truth".

Then, the thread continues with every pro-mag statement regardless of how level headed being attacked.

So who's fault is the attitude?

Everyone just shut up about it already.

AO is owned and operated by AGD and it's PRIMARY draw is to Mag past, present, and future owners. That brings with it a certain pro-mag attitude. Get over it already.

As for the fanboys, well could those complaining about too much promag sentiment please point one thread out.

[yakitori]

I've seen far more non-mag threads start with a putdown of the (non-existent) orthodox mag-fanboys and demanding that they stay out of the thread. Or, whining, moaning, and pissing when seen by others as pure complaining dismissed as "mag lovers who can't handle the truth".

Then, the thread continues with every pro-mag statement regardless of how level headed being attacked.

So who's fault is the attitude?

Everyone just shut up about it already.

AO is owned and operated by AGD and it's PRIMARY draw is to Mag past, present, and future owners. That brings with it a certain pro-mag attitude. Get over it already.

As for the fanboys, well could those complaining about too much promag sentiment please point one thread out.

how about you post some links of the threads that you have seen as stated above?

You know that TONS of threads that arent about mags have someone butting in and breaking the topic, w/ something along the lines of "this is a mag forum, stay out" "go to xxxxowners.com" yada yada yada.

you are exemplifying my point. please keep replying.

[atm743]

ya know i have been talking to lots of people on pbnation cuse im selling my back up mag

( i jest sold it on e-bay though)

and i was asking some people for trades and they said

I dont like mags

and i said why they are fast and never break


and guess what this frut said


cuz they are old skool

i was going to flip cuse my e-mag dose not look old school

and also not to get off topic

but im getting sick of my team mates and others online saying that buying an other gun thats not a mag is bad

one of my team mates (dj89) is calling me a trator cuse i bought a ion for a back up. Really i dont care if they are smart parts or not. really i dont like them but dose it really matter if i buy an gun from an other company i cant stand it. cant stand this people acting like 5 years old saying that this company is the best why would you get an other gun. really i LOVE agd dont get me wong. but i think its cool to try out different guns. if you go on with your life sticking with one brand of food or one brand of cloths or whatever you are not getting anywhere.

well thats my input for now

and yes i cant spell. right now i dont care cuse im sick and dont feed good soo im to lazy to check over my spelling.

[JimmyBeam]

This is a mag forum, if you dont like it LOG THE HELL OUT!!!!

hey i got a couple Ion questions..........




























jk

[Aslan]

Pro BE

then he shouldn't be posting about how be doesnt listen (tri-pod, evlution, revvie shells) when their R&D department is very well run

I wasn't talking about how good of hoppers they make or whether or not they have sweet a$s squeegies. If I need to do a poll to find out that BE markers are the worst on the market, I will, but I think even a newb knows that. I didn't mean to piss off the captain of Team BE.

BE makes money because they sell junk at Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart shoppers will buy whatever junk happens to be there. You can fill a shelf with turd bologna and some numnut will buy it because it's at Walmart, the American experience. That doesn't mean it's quality just because it "makes millions." Their quality stinks, which is proven by the fact that very few people use BE products and continue to use them all throught their paintball "careers". Usually, they use them when they don't know any better...keep them awhile as a back-up...then eventually sell them or give them away or throw them away. I know it's like comparing "apples to zebras", but saying that BE makes quality markers and have great R&D because their hoppers are good is far more ignorant (in my opinion) than me posting about how they don't listen.

If they listened, they'd hear what people say about their product and they'd try to improve it...not just say "look over there!", then kick the marker under a rug and pull out a hopper and say "look how sweet this X-Board is!"

[the_lane]

well to start off good rant and to agree with the people who talked about how if ppl wouldnt hav complained we wouldnt hav had all the greatthings ADG has made but you know what its how you complain you know what im saying? like instead of OMFG MAGS ARE SO HEAVY AND INNEFICIENT MY ANGEL IS SO MUCH BETTER111111111 or my mags to heavy my mags a gas hog yada yada yada but lets say constructive complaining:
lets try to make a new mod for tha batt pack on the E-MAG i dont like it DONE,to whom it may concern: my mag chops can you do somthing about this? now that is done(i hope it made sense!)PARAFRASING SOMEONE i think a company has done this and there are three letters in the name the first letter is A you figure out the rest


-lane the flying skwril

[Aslan]

I hate those guys

I dont like mags

cuz they are old skool

i was going to flip cuse my e-mag dose not look old school

Alot of people talk about what newbs do that bother experienced players...well here's my gripe about what experienced players do that bothers newbs. They go out and buy some crazy looking goofy marker because it's the "next big thing", then they spend $1200 buying a bunch of stupid junk for it and getting it painted to match their friends. Then they dress up in stupid jerseys and pants that match their gun and buy colored helmets to match their guns and then they go on every website in the world and talk about how they have the sickest set-up in the world. Usually they love speedball...and stink at woodsball and scenario because they can't figure out that their XL Red Dye jersey doesn't help them hide in the woods nor does the sun bouncing off their all chrome annodized super marker nor does it help that their cool looking thermal mirror goggles make great targets. The only reason this rant pertains to the above post is it's people like that who will buy a marker because it's "Cool looking" or it matches their pants...and those people are more annoying than anything else I can think of and huge turnoffs to potential paintball players that see those guys and think, "dang, I guess if I want to play paintball I have to dress like a bungwad and pay $1200 for a space-aged marker signed by God.

However...I am jealous that their $100 thermal goggles don't fog up while I'm playing paintball in a fog after 5 minutes...so go them on that point.

[hipster]

I have been playing paintball Since pumps ruled and airball didnt exist
i was one of the first to buy the mag when it came out with a power feed and have owned many since, and I dissagree about the stop complaining, and a agree that the only way to make a good thing better is keep trying. I wish AGD would have finished the small round battery for the e/x mag they were working on( I would buy one)
and hope they keep pushing forward and make a rail system thats compatable with the eclipse , either that or make there own full elec trigger system with 9 volt , they have proven that the mag is fast real fast ,the have proven they can make it light, now they need to put it all together and make a gat that belongs on the air ball fields of the world , the x and e mags were just or should have been just the begining, ( and a little better on the air use would never hurt) as for all you that disagree -you all know you would be the first in line for the new small light full elec mag or the rail that would let you use the e2 just admit it

[RoadDawg]

The reactivity in a Mag trigger does not use any extra air. No air is vented and no pressure is vented. No energy is wasted.

What you experience is the pressure from the tank trying to open the on/off. Nothing more.

Final charged dump chamber pressure is the same regardless of input pressure, and it's the balance between charged pressure and residual pressure after firing than determines efficiency.

Unless someone has data to prove me wrong...

So your saying that no matter what pressure I use to move the on/off won't affect my efficency? I mean higher input pressure leads to more reactivity does it not?

Example if I use less pressure to move the on/off I should get less reactivity in the "bounce". If I was to turn up the pressure it can and will run away (one pull sets off several shots above 1000 usually), which from my experience of messing with it, sucked my tank dry faster with fewer shots being fired. So in other words what I'm saying is that by using more air to open the on/off should in turn makes your shots per tank go down. Which is why I got a great deal more shots then someone else with a 45/45 preset. Tank was filled about the same, I turned my output down (his was 900 and mine was 700) I got more shots per fill then the other guy did. It might be a difference of 50+ balls but still those extra 50 shots can come in handy. Was this a fluke or what? Or maybe I don't know enough about mags anymore to understand how they operate.