Should Logic Produce an Electro Frame?

[Muzikman]

If you promise to not run away with my money I would do it.:) Time for me is not an issue. But I also think that any wear items need to be able to be replaced with common parts (ie. no custom LPR, etc..).

[CoolHand]

If you promise to not run away with my money I would do it.:) Time for me is not an issue. But I also think that any wear items need to be able to be replaced with common parts (ie. no custom LPR, etc..).

Oh yes, I am all about off-the-shelf parts and standard sized screws, etc.

All wear items would be hardened and replaceable from most hardware stores, or McMaster Carr at the worst.

I had planned to use Cocker LPR's to further reduce costs and make the thing more customizable/compartmentalized (IE you don't have to buy an LPR if you already have one).

That sort of thing is in my blood. At my core, I am an engineer and a realist. Both of those push me to use standard parts whenever I can. No sense reinventing the wheel if you already have a huge stockpile of them next door.

And yes, you can count on me not to run off to Fiji or wherever with your preorder money. I am likely the least interesting person you will ever meet (unless of course, you too are a super nerd, then all bets are off ).

[BigEvil]

Ryan,

You talk about not wanting to reinvent the wheel, but then you choose a electroneumatic frame over a regular Electo-frame.

I think that it would be far simpler to go the 9v/noid/cap/board route than trying to go through all the other bs with the lpr (as you mentioned), hoses, qev's and such.

BUT, I am curious to see what you have up your sleave.

[CoolHand]

Well, I had a go at the big pancake 'noid style before, and IMO it is a clunky solution at best.

In this case, its not so much reinventing the wheel, as realizing that there is another shape out there that rolls better than a pentagon.

This would not need the ULT (yay for less tuning), no QEVs, and will use stock grips (one thing you simply cannot do when you use a pancake 'noid). Its all very tiny, and very simple. One moving part, and a very cheap and simple solenoid valve. Plus, your battery life will basically quadruple.

[warbeak2099]

Ok, I'm thinking we could keep the cost down if the eframe consisted of this:

Aluminum frame that accepts kingman esp electronics (noid, board, battery, switch) ~ $120

Then the user can buy a used esp frame for $50, take out the noid, on/off switch, battery, and battery harness, and add:

Tboard (comes with capacitor) = $55
T Switch = $11
Eyes = $6
Ramping or F/A Chip = $20

Total would come to around $260. I'd probably go get some rare earth magnets from radio shack and super glue them to the trigger and frame too. That'd be like an extra $2. So the only part that the manufactorer would have to make is the frame. That's where Ryan or whatever dealer wants to do it would come in. Obviously it'd be nice if the frame had eye channels, adjustable trigger, and maybe magnets already there too. I mean, even if the frame costed $150. That would still be only around $290. Think about it, an eframe with eyes, uncapped semi, ramping, and a 25g or 50g switch for under $300. And all Coolhand or whatever dealer does it has to do is manufactor an aluminum frame that accepts kingman esp internals. Preferably a vert or hybrid frame. Feasibility Coolhand? How much would it cost to make a batch of Ripper frames that have mounts for kingman electronics?

I will donate an esp frame I have lying around if you want. I shaved the noid pin down but still cant get my vm e-ripper project to work.

[CoolHand]

Ok, I'm thinking we could keep the cost down if the eframe consisted of this:

Aluminum frame that accepts kingman esp electronics (noid, board, battery, switch) ~ $120

Then the user can buy a used esp frame for $50, take out the noid, on/off switch, battery, and battery harness, and add:

Tboard (comes with capacitor) = $55
T Switch = $11
Eyes = $6
Ramping or F/A Chip = $20

Total would come to around $260. I'd probably go get some rare earth magnets from radio shack and super glue them to the trigger and frame too. That'd be like an extra $2. So the only part that the manufactorer would have to make is the frame. That's where Ryan or whatever dealer wants to do it would come in. Obviously it'd be nice if the frame had eye channels, adjustable trigger, and maybe magnets already there too. I mean, even if the frame costed $150. That would still be only around $290. Think about it, an eframe with eyes, uncapped semi, ramping, and a 25g or 50g switch for under $300. And all Coolhand or whatever dealer does it has to do is manufactor an aluminum frame that accepts kingman esp internals. Preferably a vert or hybrid frame. Feasibility Coolhand? How much would it cost to make a batch of Ripper frames that have mounts for kingman electronics?

I will donate an esp frame I have lying around if you want. I shaved the noid pin down but still cant get my vm e-ripper project to work.

I could likely sell just the frame for ~$150, or a frame and trigger for ~$175 or so, but I am more leery of folks seeing a marker with a Logic frame not working worth a damn, than anything else.

It may seem funny, but the way PB'er are, they see one go down, all products by that company suck by proxy. (And I have near zero confidence in Kingman's electronics.)

Plus, think about this ----> Why would you want to have ~$350 in a mediocre e-frame, when you could have one that was done right (high quality everything) for another $75 or so?

That's what prompted me to ditch the pancake 'noid in the first place. I was not impressed with CF's 'noid, Kingman's will be worse yet.

Its that whole "in for a penny, in for a pound" thing. When you are spending that much money on an upgrade, why not do it right the first time?

[warbeak2099]

The only kingman electronic being used would be the noid. It can't be that bad. As long as the thing opens and closes who cares? Everything else would be good quality. The sd tboard is not a cheap peice of crap. The dwell can be set up to 20-30ms too, so it'll work fine for a mag. The board will be high quality, the frame and trigger will be high quality, the noid will work which is all that matters, so what's the problem? It will be a cheaper e-noid frame than the dmag. And it wouldn't be low quality. The only iffy part would be the noid, and again, as long as it works then who cares what company makes it?

If you sold us the frame for $175, it would cost us another $142 to buy all the electronics, eyes, and an upgraded chip and switch. So, $317 for a frame that has ramping, uncapped semi, eyes, a friggin light microswitch, an adjustable trigger, etc. The bolt on dmag frame for $450 doesn't even include eyes.

[CoolHand]

Gotta add in for custom grips too. You can't use stock grips with the pancake 'noids.

You also gotta realize that I am not shooting for the $450 price tag. I'd say $400 would be the upper limit for the electopneumatic frame.

I would use a Predator board of one sort or another, which should come with eyes. Whether you install them or not is your call.

What I am saying is that I don't want to put out a half assed product just to save $50.

I need to get some quotes done, but if I could put out the electopneu frame for marginally more than the spyder conversion, would you guys buy it?

I would feel much better about the product, and I am sure it will prove out to be better for everyone.

[warbeak2099]

I'm sure others would jump on it. $400 for an epneu frame with eyes is pretty good. I guess I'm just being selfish lol. I'm a 17yo with a job as a cashier at a supermarket and paying my own auto insurance lol. If someone came out with a frame that accepts kingman internals for ~$175 I'd go nuts. It wouldn't be half-assed. It would be a clean, professional made frame with all the mounts, not some homemade job with jagged cuts and welds all over. Idkn, to me it would be perfect.

It'd perform great with a tboard, ramping chip, and 25g switch too.

[TheTramp]

I need to get some quotes done, but if I could put out the electopneu frame for marginally more than the spyder conversion, would you guys buy it?.

I love you to put out the frame (with all the mounting brackets) and a parts list for the rest of the internals. That was we could buy the frame from you then get the rest of the prts as money permits. I'd have a hard time buying a $400 e-frame but $150 for the frame then $ to get the rest of the parts would be very doable.

[warbeak2099]

Good point. I wouldn't be able to get the $400 all at once. But if I could buy and drop the parts in as money permitted, that'd be better. I'd also have no problem with the lpr coming out of the top of my logic gas thru. I think it'd look cool. I like how it looked in the electrician's e-mod.

[Magglerock]

$350-400? At that price range, I'm in - as long as there's a 45 degree option! Please!

[JoshK]

I know I love mags...and by the time you will be asking for money (hopfully later this year) I will have some money saved up to buy this (atleast the frame if not the whole thing).

But I know this would be much more affordable to more people if you make the parts list available.


-Josh

[CoolHand]

Most likely it will be in a hybrid angle frame.

Once I used one, I fell in love with the feel.

All the great points of the vert frame, but none of the drawbacks.

To everyone - Let me gather up some quotes and see about the cost. I can better guage the interest if I have real numbers to work with.

[warbeak2099]

Gonna consider selling the blank frame and giving us the option of buying the internals a bit at a time? It'd be awesome if it could be used as a mech frame in the meantime.