The legal issues around the C3

[11 Bravo]

You started it Bub.

If I say one opinion is assinine and one isn't. Or that posting simply to call the discussion of ideas silly is moronic. Is it just your fault if you take it personally.

I dont take anything that you say seriously.

[chefstevie]

.

every single topic in this forum turns into an argument...wow

simply embarrassing...cmon ao i know we can do better than pbn!

[SlartyBartFast]

Oh no. Name calling.

Think about it. You walk into a room with people talking. You don't like the topic so you make a snide comment and head for the door.

Can you really be surprised when you get a full pop/beer can to the back of the head?

It's our right to discuss whatever we want it's your right to leave. Don't hear anyone else clamouring for your wonderfully intelligent discourse to continue. You 'input' hasn't amounted to a puddle of spit and you seem to be the only one that holds it in any regard.

Who are these "plenty" of people? The same people worrying about the dangers of propane and the possibility of changing this marker into a flamethrower?


Sorry, the thread went south Lohmann. I'd be happy to have a mod come in a erase all of this patehtic diatribe from both of us since Bravo's first post.

[SlartyBartFast]

every single topic in this forum turns into an argument...wow

simply embarrassing...cmon ao i know we can do better than pbn!

It would be nice. These days the only difference between AO and PBN sometimes seems to be that bigger words are used by the interloping idiots who on PBN would post "NOOB" or "2k5er" or other dumb putdown.

But using "silly" is just unimaginative IMO.

I dont take anything that you say seriously.

So essentially, your life is so sad that your stalking Lohmann and me to make sad simplistic statements.

Bet you can't resist trying to get the last word in.

[Muzikman]

Bravo, you just made my list of most annoying AOer.

Squid, if you read this, you have been bumped down to number 2



that second part was a joke

[KRAKMT]

Mr. Bravo I encourage you to watch http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php Please. Actually everyone should.

As to the legalities. It could make it quite intersting. Doesn't NY have very tight paintball regulations? What would it do to the sport if you could only purchase paintball equipment through an FFL? AND you had to be of age.

Did Tippman look into the laws- who knows? It would have been wise for them to have looked. And if it is true they had dealing in the area regarding miniture cannons then I would hope the researched the issue.

As for what fits under the definition- the law is directed at firearms manufacturors- and the process for which they are sold not what is a weapon(reference to fireworks- different regulations). Will a propane powered paintball markers be defined as a firearm and thereby subject to firearm regulations? If it does will it drag along pnuematics? I suspect the ATF probably doesn't want to deal with all the paintball crap.

[chefstevie]

.

Bravo, you just made my list of most annoying AOer.

Squid, if you read this, you have been bumped down to number 2



that second part was a joke

hahaha agreed.

[Lohman446]

"you started it" - Thanks for making my point about the maturity.
When this thread was started did lohman actually think that it was going to be taken seriously by anyone besides slartybartface? Plenty of other people have remarked at how rediculous this thread is but you seem to want to address me. I said that I would ignore this thread and let it continue without my input, but I cant do that if you keep bickering with me.
You can keep your feathers all ruffled and make remarks at me or you can go on with your enlightened legal discussion.
I would be glad to ignore anything further that you say about this terrible legal problem that the paintball world is facing as long as you leave me out of it.

TK has in the past chimed in on legal discussions, even on ones that were stretching liability standards. So have many others. Don't like a topic of discussion, fine ignore it. Have an opinion, fine state it. But quit using this forum to troll for flames. Where did I say it was a horrible legal situation? I pointed out that there could be an issue of interpertation, and I wondered if Tippman had addressed it.

[Lohman446]

Mr. Bravo I encourage you to watch http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php Please. Actually everyone should.

As to the legalities. It could make it quite intersting. Doesn't NY have very tight paintball regulations? What would it do to the sport if you could only purchase paintball equipment through an FFL? AND you had to be of age.

Did Tippman look into the laws- who knows? It would have been wise for them to have looked. And if it is true they had dealing in the area regarding miniture cannons then I would hope the researched the issue.

As for what fits under the definition- the law is directed at firearms manufacturors- and the process for which they are sold not what is a weapon(reference to fireworks- different regulations). Will a propane powered paintball markers be defined as a firearm and thereby subject to firearm regulations? If it does will it drag along pnuematics? I suspect the ATF probably doesn't want to deal with all the paintball crap.

Good point of contention. Didn't the ATF get involved though in regards to paintball silencers at one point as they could be easily converted towards firearms? How much does it change things if someone gets hold of pepperballs and uses them criminally in regards to all paintball markers? And is that just a matter of time?

Interesting tidbit from a charter boat captain I know. Michigan has cracked down on flare guns in violation of the Michigan laws on boats. Makes an interesting conondrum (sp) for those trying to meet Coast Guard regulations requiring flares (and the requirements for those flares) and Michigan law.

[-=Squid=-]

Jesus Christ, WOULD YOU STOP WITH THE DISCUSSION THREADS?

[Glickman]

Jesus Christ, WOULD YOU STOP WITH THE DISCUSSION THREADS?

THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU!


as far as the ATF and silencers, they never got involved to my knowledge, they just never allowed any sort of silencer that could be used to silence a firearm beyond usually 5 db (dont quote me on that), otherwise it has to be registered/approved at the BATF

i dont understand what pepperballs has to do with this conversation.

with the flare gun
"Is a flare gun used as a signaling device on a watercraft required to be registered in Michigan?
MCL 28.432b and 750.231c, No. "

this does not apply to vessels for hire though, so technically, on a charter, it is a pistol, and needs a carry license

[Huskie_American]

2) Its being sold to minors.
3) Because the barrel is under 18" it is a short barreled rifle and again prohibited
4) Because it is over .50 caliber it becomes a "destructive device" Edit: Slarty pointed out, at least for point 4, because it is used in a sporting manner and readily acceptable for it, that it is probably exempt from destructive device classifications.

and these differ from any other marker sold...how?

[AGD]

Guys,

Do you REALLY think this product is so creative NO ONE has thought of it before??? Maybe its not THAT obvious propane could be used as a power source after browsing all the nail guns at home depot?

SO...... maybe if you tell yourself "well yea a ton of peeps probably looked into that" then you have to ask the question....
Why haven't we seen it before????????

There is a VERY GOOD REASON that has to do with legal issues. Because once again I am under legal obligations not to say anything, I can't go into details. I think the smart guys here are asking the right questions, typically the rest just go with the flow (I had some other nasty comments but we will leave it at that).

AGD

[Lohman446]

and these differ from any other marker sold...how?

Other markers do not use an explosion as a source of propulsion and thus do not appear to meet the federal definition of a firearm (though they appear to under some state laws and are, thankfully, simply ignored).

[Lohman446]

i dont understand what pepperballs has to do with this conversation.

I brought up pepperballs as a question. Blissfully the ATF has basically left paintball alone to the best of my knowledge at least. It has been accepted that we are not using a weapon when we play, carrying one in our car, or selling one to minors or without the proper paperwork because they have not been used as a weapon. How does this change if there is a high profile "prank" employing a paintball marker and pepperballs into a crowd of people (and not by the police). Or are pepperballs a different enough caliber that its not possible? A paintball marker shoots a projectile - we may call them markers all we want, but would that classification stand if they started to be used more maliciously then the simple acts of vandalism and pranks we sometimes see. What if those pranks were more high profile?