"Im ok with capped 15BPS ramping" - opinions?

[-=Squid=-]

So I've decided that for every stupid opinion thread you make, you are Madball.

[stop whining buy a mag]

I kind of wonder why these threads are always brought up.

A 15 BPS cap is probably the best thing for the tournament scene. It does take away from the skill but most people don't care to cheat (shooting over 15 BPS) because right now the playing field is level from that stand point. I think the 15 BPS rule just has to be accepted. It's working and is safe. Paintball can be a dangerous sport so considering that no one has died yet, I'd call that close to safe. (I know that in every major PSP event some player gets knocked out from 3 balls to the head.)

I don't know why everyone worships the ATSM. It's really just a bunch of guidelines that are trying to keep some feeling of honor and integrity in the game. The ATSM is just the given guidelines in paintball, nothing more.

[Steelrat]

There are plenty of guns that violate ATSM standards other than with ramping, why is ramping so important? I'd guess that the paintball industry has yet to taste the full force of product-liability lawsuits, and that my explain the lax adherance to those standards.

On a personal reason, I despise ramping because it made naturally shooting fast, which I considered to be a "skill," irrelevant.

And as for the 15 bps limit, I'd go with Rogue on that one, in that it was generally considered the "norm."

[DaveSM]

I know that I am old school. One pull one ball. If you are a freak of nature that can pull down +13 BPS more power to you. Personally I cant pull more than 11 for more than a second. But I do feel that we are walking a very dangerous line with ramping. I see very cavalier attitudes about it with a lot of the "if you cant handle it then you shouldn't be playing" comments made. The one thing I find extremely annoying is that the majority people owning these markers want to use them at every venue & type event. When they get told that they cant use them they throw a fit. I saw a first time female player get traumatized (literally had to be helped off the field) in a game where a bunch of guys with ramping markers kept shooting her. They ignored the fact that her hands were up.

It's sad to hear this kind of story. Paintball shouldn't be like that. First timers should be able to enjoy playing it.

[Duzzy]

To me it's not just the limit, it's the 'how' aswell. Personally I think anything more then 3 shots per pull is unnecessary. I have a video clip that sums up the major reason I detest some of the other forms... Have to edit it first and I'll try and upload it soon.

Show me one person that can do that without bounce. Semi BPS has got to be the most over hyped aspect of paintball ever.

Good thing I never mentioned it being without bounce eh? In all seriousness, I was wrong. The highest in the AO "BPS Showdown" was about 16 and I mistakenly thought it was 19. Thank you for the "correction".

[zaqwert6]

Did someone decide 15 was safe but 16 was dangerous? Where did the magic 15 number come from?

Extensive ROF testing was done using a wide range of pro tourny teams and it was proven that only of a handfull of the most fastest shooters were capable of maintaining 15bps for anything near a full second on a truly LEGAL test rig.

Therefore it was felt that allowing ramping up to 15.xx would not provide a dramatic ROF advantage.

[Beemer]

Extensive ROF testing was done using a wide range of pro tourny teams and it was proven that only of a handfull of the most fastest shooters were capable of maintaining 15bps for anything near a full second on a truly LEGAL test rig.

Therefore it was felt that allowing ramping up to 15.xx would not provide a dramatic ROF advantage.

Like I said Im betting Large

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[Lohman446]

no offense Lohman, but is there a reason why you keep asking these questions? (after all you are a repeated offender of ramping threads) does this help you sleep at night? Are you looking for a special answer that will make your dreams come true? they set it not for safety, but for evenness, for equality, so that the lesser guns wont get blown away by 30 bps guns. Its not safety, its leveling the playing field to an extent.

What's left to discuss. Bottom line, I'm all for ramping, I really don't care if you want to shoot at 30 balls per second. I personally don't use it but do not beleive it anymore inherently dangerous on the field than what we have now.

[Lohman446]

Heres the thought. If I step on your field at our level I will be protected for it and would like you to be also. If not then I certainly wouldnt bunker you.

How about this. I know the risks of stepping onto the field. I provide myself protection within the rules to make this risk acceptable to myself. You provide protection to make the risk acceptable to you. Perhaps I am willing to accept more risk to my person than you are. However, the dangers of paintball to people playing at a certain level should be obvious and inherent. I know the risks of the protective gear I wear (or don't). Your level of protection is likely higher than mine, and it puts you to where you feel the risk is acceptable. I feel the risk is acceptable with my level of protection.

[Beemer]

Oh snap lets just play with 303s.

[bleachit]

However, the dangers of paintball to people playing at a certain level should be obvious and inherent.

and what level is that? the local field with walk ons? unless they ban ramping there, then people who are not aware of the risks will be subject to the same risk without knowing it.

[Lohman446]

and what level is that? the local field with walk ons? unless they ban ramping there, then people who are not aware of the risks will be subject to the same risk without knowing it.

My local field allows ramping. We also play some mixed groups. I have never seen a new player exposed to the close range bunkering. Those of us who participate in a "more aggressive" game do not use such tactics with newer players.

As to how should they be aware of it. Lets assume we are discussing a kid. There parent should certainly be aware of the aspect adn scope of the game they are allowing there child to participate in, perhaps by watching a few games first. The same goes for adults. Lets get rid of waivers and start signing "acknowledgements of inherent risk"

"I didn't know downhill skiing was dangerous" - I mean, certainly certain activities, especially sporting activities, require some degree of diligence by the participant in protecting there own safety. Take skiing for instance. Wearing a helment definetly makes it safer. I still don't. It's a risk I have accepted and I ski with equipment that makes the risk of injury, to myself, acceptable to me. Logically full head and neck gear would make paintball safer. And if you want to wear it more power to you. However, I play with equipment that makes the risk of injury, to myself, acceptable to me. See the pattern?

[onedude36]

It's total crap. And my one in a trillion was a wild guess for example, obviously not a scientifically concluded number. The 1/50K thing. People win the lotto often with much high odds. People are struck be lightening, die in a plane accident, are killed by jellyfish, die of a heart attack in Disneys "Its a Small World" ride etc. from time to time. Without looking I would say those are all less likely to occur than that number.

the odds of 'somone' winning the lottery are quite good. The odds of you winning it are next to nill. Same goes for the lightning and other examples. I can confidently say you will never win the lotto if there are 50,000 others vying for it too, providing you all have an equal chance to win.

[Beemer]

Lets assume we are discussing a kid.

Lets assume its your kid. How would you tell him, her to suit up?

There parent should certainly be aware of the aspect and scope of the game they are allowing there child to participate in

I agree but do you think that is true. I dont. The parents are less informed then the kids and the kids dont know dont care what is safe and what isnt.

[Lohman446]

Lets assume its your kid. How would you tell him, her to suit up?



I agree but do you think that is true. I dont. The parents are less informed then the kids and the kids dont know dont care what is safe and what isnt.

The only way my child is playing paintball without full head, chest, and neck protection is in a very controlled environment with me close by and a people I know well and can "control" the environment.