The ART of wiping

[Lohman446]

Basically when i own a field (and it will happen, i will make it so) don't cheat at it then, otherwise it will happen to you, or if someone cheats you WILL see it happen.

So... outside the competition of the game your going to have your employees fire a weapon at people in order to punish them by inflicting pain? The intent of firing the marker is not part of the competition of the game, but as physical punishment?

Good plan Hope you like your cellmate

[SlartyBartFast]

Name one sport that after the game is over goes back and changes even bad calls of officials. Even if cheating, or a blatant bad call is present.

However, how do you know if there is video coverage of the player who wiped? How do you make sure every player has a camera on him? Thats expensive...

[Rudz]

dont worry

So... outside the competition of the game your going to have your employees fire a weapon at people in order to punish them by inflicting pain? The intent of firing the marker is not part of the competition of the game, but as physical punishment?

Good plan Hope you like your cellmate

oh lohman dont worry it will be stated on the waiver that every 1 signs and never reads...if you are caught cheating ...consequences may include banning, pulled from games, and in the event the player does not comply, a field official may resort to using excessive force...as in shooting you untill u decide to leave the game....any returned fire will be met by extreme physical force to be distrubuted by field staff equipped with behavioral control devices..such as tasers...pepper spray..batons,,boots...and paintball markers...

[Lohman446]

You surely found the sports . That being said, if you are going to do it, should it not be the responsibility of the leagues. I would hate to think that the team with the most cameras would be able to "win". What about video alteration which some people can do extremely well. Let's say that it would be a good idea, surely if it is the taping must be controlled by something?

[SlartyBartFast]

I would hate to think that the team with the most cameras would be able to "win".

Well, even if the other team only had one camera, maybe a spectator would supply them with footage to issue a complaint. Even with only one, the complexity of checking for the camera before cheating puts a lot of pressure on the whole team.

What about video alteration which some people can do extremely well.

Very difficult to do with tight time limits. That, and have it shown from raw footage and it would be VERY difficult to fake someone cheating.

Let's say that it would be a good idea, surely if it is the taping must be controlled by something?

Risk taken on by the team lodging the complaint would provide a lot of control.

But, even one undercover spectator with a conceiled camera could do wonders for rules enforcement.

[Lohman446]

Well, even if the other team only had one camera, maybe a spectator would supply them with footage to issue a complaint. Even with only one, the complexity of checking for the camera before cheating puts a lot of pressure on the whole team.

But a team with ten dedicated and trained camera operators would have a noticeable difference over a team without. Do we want "camera crew" to be part of the skill set that determines winners and loosers (assuming cheating will still occur)?

[SlartyBartFast]

But a team with ten dedicated and trained camera operators would have a noticeable difference over a team without. Do we want "camera crew" to be part of the skill set that determines winners and loosers (assuming cheating will still occur)?

[Lohman446]

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this but I see some issues. Honest teams will from time to time get pegged for cheating, that is violating the rules.

Take this example, call it A:
An honest player is making for the snake, a step before his dive he is hit, the ball breaks, but his momentum carries him forward into the slide and he slides the hit off. The ref is called for a paintcheck and calls the player clean. He then manages to make game changing moves that allow his team to win.

Example B
A dishonest player is making for the snake, a step before his dive he is hit, the ball breaks. Without any visible change of stride the player dives and the hit is slid off. The ref is called for a paintcheck and calls the player clean. He then manages to make game changing moves that allow his team to win.

How are you going to differentiate between A and B? I think we have already had hte argument that the rules need enforced, regardless of intent (or who you are for that matter). You wipe, its wiping, even if you did so "accidentally". You play on its playing on, regardless of your knowledge of the hit.

Will there be cases that the video tape changes the outcome of the game? Yes. Will there be times this effects honest players as well as dishonest? Yes. Will the teams with the most angles, and camera crew trained what to look for have an advantage over those without (both honest and dishonest)? Yes.

I don't disagree with the idea of reviewed tape, much in how the NFL does it. Perhaps every game should be taped and reviewed by impartial third parties with a time limit on the review to look for blatant indisputable video evidence of cheating. Remember though, we run into the same problem we have now. The rules will have to be applied to everyone, regardless of intent. I think this is a major problem we have now with paintball, that too many people try to evaluate, and operate in, a "grey" area.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this but I see some issues.

Honest teams will from time to time get pegged for cheating, that is violating the rules.

Too bad. Whether you break a rule intentionally or unintentionally, you broke the rule.

How are you going to differentiate between A and B?

[Lohman446]

But, then again, we come back to the problem of all rules discussions. Even the blatant and easily enforceable rules are inconsistently caught and punished.

I think we have agreed to exactly this in the past. There are problems already within the rules and there current enforcement that could be addressed that would help. Lets get to enforcing the rules we have before calling for a different method of finding them. Too often a ref makes the decision if he thinks you felt the hit or not, this should nto be the case, "obvious" hits are clearly defined by the rules, as well as the penalties for failing to comply with the rules. There just seldom enforced.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

You have a very interesting idea, Slarty. Lohmann raises some good points, but I think your answers are pretty good. There is no perfect system. People will continue to cheat in paintball, as they do in every other sport. But an idea that can reduce cheating, or mitigate it's harmful effects is not to be sneered at.

My only comment would be that this idea would continue the general trend that budget is a key factor in competitive paintball success. But given that there is no real chance of leveling the playing field on that score, it's an observation more than a criticism.

[mag88888]

Just WOW!!!

I hope I never see that.

I agree, I hope I never see it again. That ref scraed me to death. The field is realyl rundown, the refs are the owners kids, and maybe some friends. They do not have any sup' air or anytihng. They just have some woods, pallets, spools. But anyways the reffing and safety concerns there are just soo terrible. Sometimes they dont chrono rigth off, they do it a little later, after a few games. The owners are good people, I've talked to them but they just dont know how to run a paintball place that well. i just watch out for stuff there. They sort of pretend to make it safe, signing wavers, reading out rules. But on the field its anything but like that. This is the reason I wrote a letter to the twon board considering a paintball facility. I will be talking with them in person somtime or another. I know it wont happen, i just want the idea floating around, and to prove how safe it really is when you take the proper procedures.

[Lohman446]

oh lohman dont worry it will be stated on the waiver that every 1 signs and never reads...if you are caught cheating ...consequences may include banning, pulled from games, and in the event the player does not comply, a field official may resort to using excessive force...as in shooting you untill u decide to leave the game....any returned fire will be met by extreme physical force to be distrubuted by field staff equipped with behavioral control devices..such as tasers...pepper spray..batons,,boots...and paintball markers...

That'll work

[ThePixelGuru]

Camera crews are a good idea, regardless of who they're associated with. If one team gets caught for cheating while another gets away with it, so be it. Sucks that both didn't get caught, but hey, at least we can get some of them. Really, the best way to do it is to have at least one ref for every player. It's a little cost prohibitive, but many players already volunteer to ref. The problem is making sure they're unbiased, and that they care enough about catching cheaters.

[Wizzman]

This is why you pop there ***' in the goggle or try to hit them as many times untill it hurts. But yea wiping is somewhat of a problem where I play as well.