What does supporting NPPL give to you?

[Lohman446]

I decided to start a tangent. According to numbers posted in this thread http://automags.org/forums/showthrea...70#post2120170 NPPL pays back about 19% of its entrance fees in prize money. That means in addition to all money from sponsors, id card sales, spectator seat sales, vendor fees it takes 81% of the players money to run the tournament. Over 50% of entrance fees come from D2 and D3 who get about 13% of the prize money given out. D3 actually pays in about 28% of the entrance fees and gets back less than 1% of the prize money. In fact, according to those numbers D3 players paid in $142,350 and got back (or were supposed to) $7,500 in prizes. Thats a payback percentage of just over 5% for the entire division. This does not take into consideration any of the rights you may give the NPPL to use your play to promote itself, or to allow others the same right.

I doubt you would go to a local tournament that took in $1,000 in entrance fees and gave out a total of $50 in prizes. Perhaps, for a fun tournament where entrance was low enough you might, but lets face it, NPPL is not known for low affordable entrance fees.

So... I ask you, what does supporting the NPPL as a D2 or D3 level player give you? What is the advantage to you of doing it? You would see better payback percentages at many of the local levels.

I went a step further in these thoughts

Ok.. now I'm ready to discuss payback percentages, the more and more I think about it the more I think I need to be actively promoting my own series. And my posts historical show that I side on business owners and acknowledge the vast amount of overhead that this business takes. I'm not totally naive to it.

NPPL made (pre overhead) in entrance fees alone 400K off of this event.

They made money off ID cards (no idea how much)

They also got money from sponsors (no idea how much)

They also got money from spectators (no idea how much)

They also got money from vendors (no idea how much)

They offered no inventory themselves (I assume) subletting this responsibility to the vendors.

I would say it is a conservative estimate, and likely laughable conservative, to say that, after paying out prizes they had 500K to work with to provide venue, fields, refs, staff, insurance (for there own liability, I doubt they covered you at all) and air. I bet you there are decent fields that have a smaller annual operating budget... What were there profits off a one week event I wonder?

[RRfireblade]

What can you say....they rip the players off each year and have been forever.

Guess what, the sheep still come back to graze every year.

So who's the guilty party?

[Lohman446]

What can you say....they rip the players off each year and have been forever.

Guess what, the sheep still come back to graze every year.

So who's the guilty party?

Its sad... I loved the big events, I went and paid the money only because I wanted the experience of playing the game there. My teams do not stand a chance of winning (generally) and it was about the experience. I just assumed other teams in my division were doing ok. Looking at hte numbers they may not be. Its too bad, I loved the "big events" and the fun around them. I'm thinking I may just look at one or two out of state tournaments, travel to them, have fun, and not worry about the national level ones...

I guess I never looked at it from a financial stand point, and it sucks when I do...

[RRfireblade]

I agree.

For many years there have been certain people who have tried the strighten this kinda thing out...right from the biggining actually. The problem is that paintball on the Pro level is run,controlled,dominated by a fairly small handfull of overly powerful companies/distributors ( I'm sure you know who they are) and no single small group or persons is going to cut in on their action.

Anyone see the movie Tucker?

[manike]

I don't think 'winning' Division 3 should get you ANY monetary award at all. Just props.

If you 'win' division 3 that still means you only came 149th in the whole event...

Why should that be worth more than the last place in Division 2 etc.?

[manike]

What were there profits off a one week event I wonder?

That you even posted this line makes me sick. It takes a crew of many people a whole year to arrange and organise these events. To try and imply there was only 1 weeks worth of work is horrendous and a misjustice to the work of those involved.

[FreakBaller12]

The only way to get a straight number of profit to prize to cost percentage is to get a straight non-propaganda answer from those elite few that hold those numbers. Speculation of the viewer, player, and outsiders means little to nothing of the truth. End of story.

[p8ntball72]

That you even posted this line makes me sick. It takes a crew of many people a whole year to arrange and organise these events. To try and imply there was only 1 weeks worth of work is horrendous and a misjustice to the work of those involved.

So The hard working NPPL "Crew" promote 5-6 events a year.

and by Lohman's math at 500k per event... 3 mill+ a season? WOW not to shabby

[manike]

I'm not sure if I remember correctly but that 'crew' consists of 12 full time, and then approximately 100 part time at each event.

There is far more to the numbers than the list above shows.

I know that last year the PSP made a loss doing all the events it did.

Neither series is making the 'huge profits' you guys seem to think they are.

[p8ntball72]

the amount of money the NPPL and PSP make from events is really Trivial at this point.

Be it the front end or the back end, Promoters make money. They wouldn't do it if they didn't.
I'm sure those 12 full time employees don't have to work 2 Jobs to attend events like many of the D3 teams do.

[manike]

They don't always make money. As I pointed out, last year the PSP lost money. I know the first year the Pure Promotions crew did the NPPL they lost money...

[SlartyBartFast]

Neither series is making the 'huge profits' you guys seem to think they are.

But, the question of "who is supporting who?" is still valid.

Support events at F1 races, possibly one of the most expensive sports in the world, don't support F1 in any way financially. They serve as filler and testing ground for track and officials.

Besides paintball, what other sport has the lower levels of competition directly support and bear the weight of the "professional" level?

[Lohman446]

That you even posted this line makes me sick. It takes a crew of many people a whole year to arrange and organise these events. To try and imply there was only 1 weeks worth of work is horrendous and a misjustice to the work of those involved.

You're actually right on this and it could be taken that way. Let me rephrase it to an event open to the public for one week, which is what I meant, it is a one week long event. I'm not naive enough to not realize that there is long term planning that goes into these events, and that setting it up undoubtedly requires a lot of time and equipment. You are right, there is a tremendous amount of work done by the staff of the NPPL to set up the events (not considering the work the vendors put into it). Actual setting of the fields and netting takes time, and trained workers, likely contracted out to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. No doubt there is staff that works at securing locations / insurance / promoting / normal business stuff as well. My statement was not meant to disavow that work, though it did. I still feel, in the grand scheme the teams, especially the D2 and D3 teams are supporting an unfair burden of the costs.

[Lohman446]

I don't think 'winning' Division 3 should get you ANY monetary award at all. Just props.

If you 'win' division 3 that still means you only came 149th in the whole event...

Why should that be worth more than the last place in Division 2 etc.?

Agreed... make D2 and D3 like college and highschool sports. Or even community sports (think rec leagues) No money for prizes...

BTW - my daughters soccer league with practices twice a week and events every Saturday for three months costs $40 + equipment. I'm willing to pay all equipment and consumables (paint), and even pay for air fills. Is NPPL going to give me a team event for even $100 / player?

College players are often given a lot of financial help in the way of either travels or scholarships...

[Crazy]

College players are often given a lot of financial help in the way of either travels or scholarships...

Maybe for large NCAA sports... and why do you think they do that? Because the publicity of having a good team can draw more people to your school. What would the NPPL get out of giving you a cheap tournament besides little to no profit, and no money to pay for the event necessitates?