"I DO NOT SHIP FIRST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" Thoughts?

[wimag]

Who was singled out?!?

the person he pulled the original reference for. not really up for all the copying and pasting sutff so please reread the first sentence of his post and subsequent posts. If they can figure it out i am sure the person it was directed at can as well as you too.

i think his question is valid I am not refuting that.

And before this turns into lets read between the lines fest i will make this clear:
Is Lohman a jerk for not wanting to deal with this or any other person who indicates they will not ship first ? No not at all it is his personal decision, no problems there.I made my thought clear in my first post.

[slade]

if someone with little or no feedback and very few posts insists that they will not ship first in a trade regardless of who the other person is, that person is either a scammer or is irrational, and in either scenario i will not deal with them.

I mostly buy and sell. ive only had one trade, and i shipped first. most of the people who post regularly on this forum i would have no problem shipping first to.

[Lohman446]

the person he pulled the original reference for. not really up for all the copying and pasting sutff so please reread the first sentence of his post and subsequent posts. If they can figure it out i am sure the person it was directed at can as well as you too.

i think his question is valid I am not refuting that.

And before this turns into lets read between the lines fest i will make this clear:
Is Lohman a jerk for not wanting to deal with this or any other person who indicates they will not ship first ? No not at all it is his personal decision, no problems there.I made my thought clear in my first post.

Althought the particular example comes from one person (of course any example does) I did make the post with no intent of singling any individual out for criticism. As has been noted other people do it as well (some well respected members). I didn't link, or call anyone by name. Was it singling someone out? I don't think so, but it is a judgement call.

[dahoeb]

you have to have at least some flexibility when trading or selling, i don't think youre being unreasonably "jerky", lohman

[Lohman446]

you have to have at least some flexibility when trading or selling, i don't think youre being unreasonably "jerky", lohman

That was my general feeling. If it was a deal that I wanted and I read

I generally do not ship first or something along those lines than its no big deal and I will plan on shipping first or at the same time.

If I read - under no circumstance - or something similiar, I just immediatly decide I don't want to deal with that person. I was just wondering if I'm alone. I tend to be a jerk from time to time, so sometimes my reactions are not a great view of the reactions of people in general.

[wimag]

Althought the particular example comes from one person (of course any example does) I did make the post with no intent of singling any individual out for criticism. As has been noted other people do it as well (some well respected members). I didn't link, or call anyone by name. Was it singling someone out? I don't think so, but it is a judgement call.

i dont think you are a malicous person and you are correct it is a judgement call.

[Steelrat]

I rank "I do not ship first under any circumstances" right up there with "$xxxx FIRM," "No lowballs," and "post here first or I will ignore you." I just plain skips ads with any such language. People who make statements like that are pretty much telling me that they are going to be a pain to negotiate with, and there are plenty of other markers out there.

[Hexis]

At least they are clear about being inflexiable. If you know up front you can make your own decision if you want to deal with the person or not.

[SpecialBlend2786]

It bothers me, moreso when the poster only has like...2 post here and/or no feedback to speak of. I usually don't do trades unless I "know" the person, just because it's a pain to coordinate everything, and dealing with someone like this just makes things worse.

[going_home]

Why ?

Not to hijack the thread, but can someone logically explain why
AO feedback "is better than/means more than" Ebay feedback ?

I keep seeing people post that they accept AO feedback but Ebay
feedback doesnt count. That is illogical to me.

There is no proof by someone posting feedback on AO
that they even actually had a transaction.

Where as you cant even leave feedback on Ebay unless you had a transaction.
I'm just saying AO feedback could be ramped up by ones friends dishonestly
and thats not possible on Ebay. Well I guess technically its possible
but who would want feedback bad enough to pay Ebay fees for bogus auctions ?

[slade]

Not to hijack the thread, but can someone logically explain why
AO feedback "is better than/means more than" Ebay feedback ?

I keep seeing people post that they accept AO feedback but Ebay
feedback doesnt count. That is illogical to me.

There is no proof by someone posting feedback on AO
that they even actually had a transaction.

Where as you cant even leave feedback on Ebay unless you had a transaction.
I'm just saying AO feedback could be ramped up by ones friends dishonestly
and thats not possible on Ebay. Well I guess technically its possible
but who would want feedback bad enough to pay Ebay fees for bogus auctions ?

AO feedback is linked directly to the individual, there is no proof that a person on AO isnt linking to another persons ebay feedback link. im "slade" here, "slade17" on PBN because someone else had already taken slade, and "slade2867" on ebay because someone already took slade and slade17. that means that theres at least 3 accounts that look like they could be me, and someone could easily create an account here modeled after an e-bay account.

AO allows more room to explain what happened in a transaction

you could always search AO to see if the for sale thread ever existed, and if someone has a lot of feedback, especially by people with high post counts, its most likely not fake. you only really need to be concerned if a person has the majority of their feedback from someone with few posts or transactions.

Ebay fees arent too extensive, theoretically its worth the $20 for a number of fake auctions if the person is going to make $1000 from ripping someone off with another fake auction.

if an AO deal goes wrong, there is no way to leave feedback on AO. someone with high ebay feedback could make an account here, post their ebay feedback, and rip someone off. the person who was ripped off can post feedback here, but if the person has no plan of having another transaction here, what will that do? their ebay feedback, which they actually put time and effort into forming, is still perfectly intact. and, theres no proof it was actually their feedback in the first place.

is that a good enough answer for you?

[LS1 WS6]

I have a question. I know how important feedback is even though not all feedback is totally correct. I have a good amount of feedback on here and PBN along with Ebay. I do not post in every thread I read like some do, so my # of posts is not that high. I have been on here for a while too.

How do you guys feel in a situation like that? Would you trust me on my feedback or not trust me on my limited # of posts?

About the topic at hand I would never put I do not ship first. That would be based on and individual basis. I think I would tend to stay away form someone who stated it as well.

[Lohman446]

I have a question. I know how important feedback is even though not all feedback is totally correct. I have a good amount of feedback on here and PBN along with Ebay. I do not post in every thread I read like some do, so my # of posts is not that high. I have been on here for a while too.

How do you guys feel in a situation like that? Would you trust me on my feedback or not trust me on my limited # of posts?

About the topic at hand I would never put I do not ship first. That would be based on and individual basis. I think I would tend to stay away form someone who stated it as well.

I glance at feedback and general attitude of posts on here - feedback is important to people Im not used to talking to online. The only way I worry about E-bay feedback is there is a way they can prove the correlation to them and there e-bay feedback,

[slade]

I have a question. I know how important feedback is even though not all feedback is totally correct. I have a good amount of feedback on here and PBN along with Ebay. I do not post in every thread I read like some do, so my # of posts is not that high. I have been on here for a while too.

How do you guys feel in a situation like that? Would you trust me on my feedback or not trust me on my limited # of posts?

About the topic at hand I would never put I do not ship first. That would be based on and individual basis. I think I would tend to stay away form someone who stated it as well.

i look at feedback but wont trust someone based on just that unless they have a page or more from reputable people. the impression i get from posts (or especially people knowing others in person) is more important. there are plenty of people on this forum that i would trust with $1000 of equipment.

[going_home]

Few problems

AO feedback is linked directly to the individual, there is no proof that a person on AO isnt linking to another persons ebay feedback link. im "slade" here, "slade17" on PBN because someone else had already taken slade, and "slade2867" on ebay because someone already took slade and slade17. that means that theres at least 3 accounts that look like they could be me, and someone could easily create an account here modeled after an e-bay account.

AO allows more room to explain what happened in a transaction

you could always search AO to see if the for sale thread ever existed, and if someone has a lot of feedback, especially by people with high post counts, its most likely not fake. you only really need to be concerned if a person has the majority of their feedback from someone with few posts or transactions.

Ebay fees arent too extensive, theoretically its worth the $20 for a number of fake auctions if the person is going to make $1000 from ripping someone off with another fake auction.

if an AO deal goes wrong, there is no way to leave feedback on AO. someone with high ebay feedback could make an account here, post their ebay feedback, and rip someone off. the person who was ripped off can post feedback here, but if the person has no plan of having another transaction here, what will that do? their ebay feedback, which they actually put time and effort into forming, is still perfectly intact. and, theres no proof it was actually their feedback in the first place.

is that a good enough answer for you?

"you could always search AO to see if the for sale thread ever existed"

When I sell something posted FS on AO I always delete the thread.
I understood thats whats expected of members to help with the bandwidth.

"Ebay fees arent too extensive, theoretically its worth the $20 for a number of fake auctions"

I'm not talking about 20 feedbacks, if someone has several hundred and only a couple
negatives thats not feasible, paying Ebay fees for that many ?
To me 20 feedbacks is low on Ebay.

"AO allows more room to explain what happened in a transaction"

Thats the only point, to me, that you made, that would make AO feedback better than
Ebay feedback.

I still cant see anything you said that would make AO feedback more legitimate.
That was my point, Ebay feedback is more legitimate than AO feedback because
it costs money to get bogus feedback on there.
It costs nothing on AO and is easy to do without having a legitimate transaction.