"I DO NOT SHIP FIRST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" Thoughts?

[Pyroboy597]

I have never traded, sold, or bought anything from someone over the internet (paintball related items) so I have not been in the situation. There needs to be a site that can allow the buyer and seller to sign an electronic contract where they need to input a credit card number and their information (both the buyer and seller). That way if something goes wrong you both have all the information and you both signed the contract.

[Skittle]

I have never traded, sold, or bought anything from someone over the internet (paintball related items) so I have not been in the situation. There needs to be a site that can allow the buyer and seller to sign an electronic contract where they need to input a credit card number and their information (both the buyer and seller). That way if something goes wrong you both have all the information and you both signed the contract.

its called paypal or 3rd party trading, my friend.

[back2integrity]

MOST people will only leave positive feedback on eBay, as a negative feedback can be left as retaliation. Once left, there is nothing that can be done about it except a mutual withdrawal. This can tarnish someone who did nothing wrong except leave factual feedback.

So, most feedback left is mutually "positive", because there is something for a good eBayer to lose if they leave negative feedback.

Which ultimately means that the feedback ratings arent a realistic picture of feedback, but largely skewed to the postive. A pretty good eBay marketing tool, if you ask me, used to make it look like everyone is a "positive" trader.

While there are exceptions to this, it is generally the rule. Ive been burned by eBayers with very high feedback.

Ive found forum feedback allot more realistic, and therefore allot more legitimate.

ditto. I too have been burned by ebayers with high feedback because nobody wants to tarnish their own feedback score by posting the negative experiences they had with them. I've never been burned on a transaction I started in AO. (Because the feedback here has extended explanations usually and I have a pretty good idea of who I am dealing with).

[slade]

"you could always search AO to see if the for sale thread ever existed"

When I sell something posted FS on AO I always delete the thread.
I understood thats whats expected of members to help with the bandwidth.

"Ebay fees arent too extensive, theoretically its worth the $20 for a number of fake auctions"

I'm not talking about 20 feedbacks, if someone has several hundred and only a couple
negatives thats not feasible, paying Ebay fees for that many ?
To me 20 feedbacks is low on Ebay.

"AO allows more room to explain what happened in a transaction"

Thats the only point, to me, that you made, that would make AO feedback better than
Ebay feedback.

I still cant see anything you said that would make AO feedback more legitimate.
That was my point, Ebay feedback is more legitimate than AO feedback because
it costs money to get bogus feedback on there.
It costs nothing on AO and is easy to do without having a legitimate transaction.

youre trying to put a bandaid on a bullet wound.


"When I sell something posted FS on AO I always delete the thread."

most people dont do that. it wasnt meant to be an absolute solution, it was meant to be a way to help reassure yourself if you are questioning whether or not to do buisness with someone. remember, almost anything online can be faked. yeah, even ebay feedback *gasp*!

"I'm not talking about 20 feedbacks, if someone has several hundred and only a couple
negatives thats not feasible, paying Ebay fees for that many ?
To me 20 feedbacks is low on Ebay."

i love how you completely ignored my statement that a link posted here to ebay feedback is not necessarily that of the person with the account here, and even if it is, if the deal goes bad, you cannot leave feedback for them on ebay. if they rip you off, you cannot damage their feedback score. those were my two most important arguments, but you chose to address a few other trivial points.

[Pyroboy597]

its called paypal or 3rd party trading, my friend.

Considering I have used Paypal a dozen times, not sure why I did not think of that

[1337caesar]

While I have never used the "under any circumstances" condition I have stated that I will not ship first, the only reason for that was that I needed a gun to play with and didnt want to be gunless for an extended period. Its probly not that common because so many people have backup markers but I think many people have gone through times when they couldnt go without their main marker for up to 3 weeks. Its just another perspective... :)

[going_home]

I didnt get that part

i love how you completely ignored my statement that a link posted here to ebay feedback is not necessarily that of the person with the account here, and even if it is, if the deal goes bad, you cannot leave feedback for them on ebay. if they rip you off, you cannot damage their feedback score. those were my two most important arguments, but you chose to address a few other trivial points.

I didnt understand a word of it when you posted it before.
I had no idea that was the point you were making. Sorry.

But heres the answer to that delima, email them from both AO and Ebay
the same exact questions and watch for the answers.
You will be able to tell if its the same person by the answers,
and of course the return email address.

And to Rogues reply, I too have been ripped off once or twice on Ebay......
.......and on AO. There is more of a penalty on Ebay, I dont see any penalty on AO.
But I do have to admit its excruciatingly frustrating to have an Ebayer win your auction
and then they never ever email or send payment. Usually have zero feedbacks.
Some 13 year old playing around.

Thanks guys, I wondered if there was something I was missing
on the "AO feedback is superior to Ebay feedback" attitude of many AO'ers.
There wasnt. Honestly I guess its just preference. Thats the bottom line.

[Dubstar112]

Before the population of AO grew so rapidly, this was never an issue. The more people you get the chances of somone being dishonest goes up. Thats what AO relies on. Bad apples will surface quickly because time is the rule, the longer you've been here the more reputable you make yourself the better you are viewed as a person. The concept that theres nothing forcing you to be honest here, but if you are and quite consistently honest then repuation follows. If you resist the temptation as an idea to scam, then you must be honest. Thats how I would characterize the situation here. Thats my 2 cents.

[Pneumagger]

^^^ Agreed

[ttink]

In my honest opinion people with no feedback o reputation should ship second. Nowadays it is just too big of a risk to trust them with your money. It does make me mad though, because its all the rage on PbNation. There plenty of great deals but also alot of scammers...

[1337caesar]

In my honest opinion people with no feedback o reputation should ship second. Nowadays it is just too big of a risk to trust them with your money. It does make me mad though, because its all the rage on PbNation. There plenty of great deals but also alot of scammers...

QFT

Or use a third party

[punkncat]

I rank "I do not ship first under any circumstances" right up there with "$xxxx FIRM," "No lowballs," and "post here first or I will ignore you." I just plain skips ads with any such language. People who make statements like that are pretty much telling me that they are going to be a pain to negotiate with, and there are plenty of other markers out there.

I rank the "post here first" in a different category as its helpful as a seller to see who you are dealing with and in what order. Its quite common for users to have different names between email, forums, and paypal, etc. Working out who has what, where it goes and who to give feedback to is much easier when you have an easily found public spot recording it.



In regards to the original post. I wouldn't word it that way, but I won't ship first for a cash deal.(if I were selling a marker or goods for cash)
If its a trade then I refer to feedback.

[Steelrat]

I rank the "post here first" in a different category as its helpful as a seller to see who you are dealing with and in what order. Its quite common for users to have different names between email, forums, and paypal, etc. Working out who has what, where it goes and who to give feedback to is much easier when you have an easily found public spot recording it.



In regards to the original post. I wouldn't word it that way, but I won't ship first for a cash deal.(if I were selling a marker or goods for cash)
If its a trade then I refer to feedback.

I don't think it usually has anything to do with keeping track of offers. I think it has more to do with getting as many "ups" as they can. God knows I have sold TONS of stuff, and I've never had to resort to forcing everyone to post on the thread first. To me, and offer is an offer. I don't like people setting dictatorial terms in their ads. They are free to do as they like, but I'm also free to bypass their sale.

[back2integrity]

I don't think it usually has anything to do with keeping track of offers. I think it has more to do with getting as many "ups" as they can. God knows I have sold TONS of stuff, and I've never had to resort to forcing everyone to post on the thread first. To me, and offer is an offer. I don't like people setting dictatorial terms in their ads. They are free to do as they like, but I'm also free to bypass their sale.

Many times (for me at least) it does have to do with keeping track of stuff. You only get 150 PMs in your box, and when I made my "115+ items for sale thread" that thing was filled up in like 3 days. I was forced to delete many PMs in order to keep it from filling up, and if it wasn't for the people that posted in my thread I might have messed up an order or two.

But yes, the ups are usually the main reason we want people to post in the thread first.

Also, for like my Dallara Mag thread. If you just look at the thread, it would appear that not much interest has been shown for the Dallara body/rail or the gun. And when people don't think much interest has been shown for something, they try to lowball you or aren't willing to give good offers. In reality, i've had over 25 PM's concerning it, but you'd never know because only a few of them have actually posted in the thread.

[Lohman446]

I don't like people setting dictatorial terms in their ads. They are free to do as they like, but I'm also free to bypass their sale.

I agree there. I can cope with most anything I feel like when buying. That being said, I refuse to cope with someone who insists on being the sole controller