shot an ion today..

[stop whining buy a mag]

How does having alot of aftermarket parts available for a marker qualify it as being garbage? I can buy an aftermarket upgrade for every single part on a Cocker too, doesn't mean it's a bad marker. I'm not a huge ION fan but lots of people around here shoot em with little to no problems.

My hate on the Ion comes from the fact that I would never shoot one for a few reasons. Number one being it is Smart Parts. I don't care what they do legally, everything about their company just sucks from service to quality control.

The Ion isn't bad if you don't plan on playing seriously. If you play rec once a month then the Ion is an option. Of course, there are many other guns in that price range that will do just as well. I'd rather pick up a simple RT Pro than a slightly upgraded Ion.

When you want to play on a competitive level, the Ion is lacking in every area even though it is marketed to be the cheap tournament gun. So many little things would have to be done for me to even consider using one. I'd rather play with an E-Bolted A-5. You'd need a new board, new trigger, clamping feedneck, new barrel, new regulator, QEV, and something to replace the ASA. Even after all that the Ion feels cheap and is more of a headache than any other gun. The way it must be taken apart for little fixes is probably the worst overall design. Smart Parts could have done better for just a little more money.

[RusskiX]

This can be said for almost every marker currently being manufactured, and quite a few that aren't anymore. The only ones off the top of my head that this doesn't apply to (with the exception of recently-released markers) are PPS and CCI products. The existence of an aftermarket does not mean the base product "sucks".

The "improvements" you listed can be applied to virtually any marker available. Not only that, most people buy "improvements" no matter what marker they own. How many times have you seen a post from someone saying they are waiting for their marker to arrive and are already asking what "upgrades" they should buy for it? Even if he bought that $800 ramping marker, you and I both know more money would be spent "improving" it. This is an OOOOOOOOOLD argument in the paintball world. Anyone and everyone who has ever bought and upgraded a budget-minded marker has faced the same, ahem, constructive criticism. "You spent $XXX on that? You could have just bought Y marker instead (and then upgraded it with a new valve, bolt, frame, body, board, feedneck, barrel, grips, trigger, etc.)." Not to mention you can use CO2 with the Ion (and many other entry-level markers), so an HPA tank is not a necessity.

Looking at my E-Mag, I have two ULE bodies, one vert and one Warp, clamping feedneck, X-Valve, ULE rail, huge and heavy battery/foregrip, and I usually use a J&J Edge kit with it. With the exception of the battery, none of these things came with it from the factory. As soon as school begins in September and I'm earning a paycheck again, I plan to go XMOD, a $100+ option. I'm afraid to total up what my $450 "bargain" has really cost me.

QFT

The more I hear "reasoning" on why the Ion sucks the more I realize how much some people are like zealots. No offense

QFMFT

[SpecialBlend2786]

My hate on the Ion comes from the fact that I would never shoot one for a few reasons. Number one being it is Smart Parts. I don't care what they do legally, everything about their company just sucks from service to quality control.

The Ion isn't bad if you don't plan on playing seriously. If you play rec once a month then the Ion is an option. Of course, there are many other guns in that price range that will do just as well. I'd rather pick up a simple RT Pro than a slightly upgraded Ion.

When you want to play on a competitive level, the Ion is lacking in every area even though it is marketed to be the cheap tournament gun. So many little things would have to be done for me to even consider using one. I'd rather play with an E-Bolted A-5. You'd need a new board, new trigger, clamping feedneck, new barrel, new regulator, QEV, and something to replace the ASA. Even after all that the Ion feels cheap and is more of a headache than any other gun. The way it must be taken apart for little fixes is probably the worst overall design. Smart Parts could have done better for just a little more money.

Would you rather play with a stock A5?

I think you're missing the point here...

[stop whining buy a mag]

The only reason why I would not compare a stock Ion to a stock A-5 is because the A-5 does not come with the E-Bolt.

Maybe having a DM6 spoils you.

[Lee]

i really enjoy mine. only internal upgrade is a qev.

got a trigger, feedneck, asa as well and thats it. still use the stock reg and board. i've never had any trouble with mine and it's one of the early ones. number 330 i think.

decent efficiency, nice speed. good eyes. very halo worthy.

[RRfireblade]

Here's the bottom line.

Is it a good deal at $200 new?

What would 'you' buy instead for $200 new ?

How much more performance can you get else where at that price ?

What other marker at that price has as many available upgrades , both performance and cosmetic?

If the list is sooo long, why did like a cajillion IONs sell in the first 2 months ?

[Lohman446]

The one "valid" complaint I will give you guys: Its a pain to take apart. Other than that RRFireblade brings up a good point. What compares to it in the $200 range. Every marker needs an air system and a hopper so telling me I have to add those are ridiculous. Even if I give you "you have to have a barrel, and ASA, etc." I am also going to point out the number of classic mags sold without so the "user could build their own". The barrels I have found functional, as well as the reg. I don't sand loaders but this is not the only feedneck with that issue.

[geekwarrior]

The one "valid" complaint I will give you guys: Its a pain to take apart. Other than that RRFireblade brings up a good point. What compares to it in the $200 range. Every marker needs an air system and a hopper so telling me I have to add those are ridiculous. Even if I give you "you have to have a barrel, and ASA, etc." I am also going to point out the number of classic mags sold without so the "user could build their own". The barrels I have found functional, as well as the reg. I don't sand loaders but this is not the only feedneck with that issue.

Agreed...as much as some of you may hate it, Smart Parts put out a good product (relative to the price) It's a small, capable marker, with eyes and upgrades up the wahzoo....

[craltal]

Most of the bad hype comes from the problems that occured at the roll out of these guns, ie higher demand than supply so corners were cut to get them out as quickly as possible, including some assembly by shops rather than the factory. Add this to the hate that resulted from the whole patent issue and you have staunch haters.

It reminds me of the whole "CO2 is dirty so don't use it" argument.

the only issues I can see with the Ion is that it uses the much finer Impluse threading for the feednecks and the composite triggers. 99% of people's complaints about the performance of the reg never bothered to break them in properly (now if you don't like the ergonomics, that's a whole different ballgame)

But remember, we're talking about a $200 gun. It's like buying a Kia and wondering why it doesn't perform like a BMW. Both will get you from your home to the field and back and isn't that what's most important?

[Pneumagger]

The only reason why I would not compare a stock Ion to a stock A-5 is because the A-5 does not come with the E-Bolt.

Maybe having a DM6 spoils you.

OK, feel free to compare, but make it a fair comparison. A NEW tippan A5 with egrip will cost about $350. A New Ion is about what, $179?

$150 will easily get you a bunch of goodies (ASA, Feedneck, Reg) that will make the ion shooting just about as good/consitent as anything.

[Toll]

Still don't particularly like Ions (Doubt I ever will, but regardless)

http://www.ansxtreme.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=IONUPGRADEKITSILBLK

^---Is pretty neat.

All you really need is a breech, bolt tube, feedneck, reg and board....all of which can be aquired peicemeal for relatively cheap. For the price, that's quite bit you're getting in that ans package.


If some one was interested in building their own Ion, I'd start there.

[deathstalker]

O rly? How many upgrades are available in the Kingman line of markers. What can you get for a 98/A-5 that is not made by Tippmann. Quality is obvious. Go on PBReview and search for Ion. Then look at how many upgrades they have listed. 62 upgrades for a gun. When you search Tippmann, you'll notice that the majority of the upgrades come from Tippmann or BT. Most of them are either RT's, E-bolts, or Double Triggers.

Kingman has a huge aftermarket for the same reason as the Ion: A LOT OF PEOPLE OWN THEM!

There can be several reasons why Tippy and BT are almost the sole manufacturers of upgrades for Tippmanns. The first is price, the second is the target demographic, and the third is demand (a fourth might be the design of the markers). Tippmann is an established name and competing with them can prove too costly. As the demographic begins to change (actually, it's coming full circle) and the population of scenario/milsim players grows, it's quite possible we WILL see aftermarket companies releasing products for Tippies because many of those players are adults with expendable income. However, the current cost to develop upgrades and competitively price them is prohibitive.

theres no other marker around that has upgrades for every part 2 months after the fisrt release. my impressions of the ions are of the first 6 months of them being out and working at a field, and from what ive seen i would debate that it works fine stock but thats my oppinion
-matt

I might need to throw an intarweb brick at your head and SWBAM's for you to understand the existence of an aftermarket has no bearing whatsoever on the quality or performance of the base model (insert car analogy for manufacturers like BMW and Audi). Also, no other marker sold so well, so fast. As has been previously pointed out, other companies wanted in on the action. Why did they begin making parts? MONEY! Also, it doesn't seem like you ever HELD one, let alone played with one.

I guess some people still refuse to believe that the paintball industry has grown enough that companies CAN focus on turning a profit, hence the SP hate that still exists. I wish some of those people would at least evaluate the marker for what it is, rather than the company manufacturing it.

[afortuna]

Isn't it funny how many people will knock the marker that have never owned the marker? To hate a marker because of the manufacturer and not the product itself is childish at best. Bad manufacturers can make good products just like good manufacturers will make a bad product from time to time.

I've owned a stock ION. I've also upgraded it until the only stock part left was the breech.

Negatives: A. Cleaning the marker is nothing short of building a highrise apartment complex in New York. Heaven help you if you happen to break a ball at the bolt. .B. The trigger is sloppy, but an easy fix. By the way, how many Automag owners still play with the stock frame and trigger? .C. I'd like to see SP just start building them with 360 QEV's as stock. It really is a good enhancement to the marker. .D. It's not the quietest marker on the field if you add a QEV.

Positives: A. $200 or less for an electro with eyes is awesome. .B. Weight. They don't weigh very much and with a few choice upgrades weigh even less. Mine was eventually down to a hair over 2 pounds and very HOT looking to boot. .C. It's EASY to get parts for, unlike other markers on the market. Having all of the aftermarket upgrades and manufacturers means the gun can be used for a longer period of time.

I'd eventually own another as a back-up once I can get rid of the Spyder Xtra and Mongoose. Until that time, the wife won't let me. Then again, if I can get the parts together to Pneumag my stock Automag, well the ION will just have to sit on someone else's shelf.

[SR_matt]

Also, it doesn't seem like you ever HELD one, let alone played with one.

your are right that i have never owned one but i have held and shot many different ones. from stock all the way to pretty much total aftermarket parts. all of them i didnt like, they dont shoot how i like, they feel kinda of junkie, and i have seen so many people have problems with parts breaking not because they didnt know what they were doing but because of low quality pieces that were SP replacements.

-matt

[Sam5992]

i have an ion.... i like it, but i would sell it for a mag in a heartbeat. I'm saving up fora mag right now. The reason i bought it is because it was $200 and for $200 the ion if a very nice gun. It might stop working on me at some point, butive ave it for a few months and its fine... Its not great, but its not bad either.. Smart Parts did a good thing by making a cheap-good gun, but they did a bad thing by being nazis and lowering the valueof every other gun....

so yea, the ion is nice, but it not "it blew me away" nice... IMO.