Zomg!! My mag performed flawlessly at SPPL

[mostpeople]

By the way the "holding it as long as I want" comment was after the tournament, dry firing it.

I hit the full auto for about 7 balls, and thats what got my attention, I couldnt hold it until after the competition.

[mostpeople]

Yeah man, it was so quiet too! I could shoot people from maybe 100 yards away and they wouldnt even hear a thing! On one of the fields I was able to move up the middle (a swampy/tree covered area) and just pick people off on the paths to either side... I will never use another marker in a competition again. I am a mag-conver/cultist!!

[CKY_Alliance]

Actually, it is controlled in full-auto. When you pull the trigger, it fires, when you let go of the trigger, it stops firing.

I may be mistaken, but haven't you said in the past that ramping is not controllable?

[CKY_Alliance]

Not that I am aware of. One thing ramping is, is controllable. Its just controllable by a computer. If you can find where I said that, Id be surprised.

One thing I have said is that ramping, full-auto, bounce, runaway....doesnt require shooting skill. And since this is a shooting sport, it should require shooting skill.

Ahh yes that was it my mistake..thats why I asked.

[wjr]

really?

ive seen both set in a manor in which pulling 1 shot was difficult to impossible without laying 2-3 more. and too easy to not fully release the trigger and let out more paint.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE..., though you may feel that your setup is more safe...i can assure it is far from what i personaly consider "safe"

Really? I didn't think that was the case.

I stand corrected.

[jade_monkey07]

NO, IT IS NOT FINE, IT IS NOT SAFE>

You are describing a gun that is firing in an uncontrolled manner. Period. Just because the refs were negligent doesn't mean that what you are describing is permitted. An RT is capable of firing over 15bps.

first off he said he tested it at 12-13, yes rt can go faster but not if you dont have super high input pressure. my tac one only hits 13 if my hopper is moving things perfectly, if not its closer to 10. i cant believe your telling us that 13 balls per second isnt safe when some of the high end electros are running up to 25 if someone has the fingers for it in semi...

[Lohman446]

It always happens bro. Dont sweat it. And dont let any hypocrits who shoot ramping criticize you for shooting a bounce/full-auto marker. They are the same. These hypocrits just want to hold you to a different set of standards than they hold for themselves.

They want to convince themselves that their *technology* gives them an advantage that the mag didnt already have a decade ago with the mags *old* technology.

Some of the people criticizing you are the ones who shoot ramping. ASTM doesnt distinguish between a ramping marker, and a full-auto marker, and a run-away marker. To say your marker is unsafe also means they are saying ramping is unsafe. Anything that shoots more than 1 ball per pull/release is the same.
!

A ramping marker is shooting as it is designed and within parameters generally defined under certain rules. It is far more controllable.

A mag in bounce is functioning in a condition that is considered a malfunction by the manufacturer.

I'm not holding any different standards. You want to use a mag on bounce on the field, and can prove control over it, I could care less. But don't claim something that isn't so.

Did you chrono is such a matter that you considered the velocity climb associated with uncontrolled bounce? Before Im told it does not exist.

In fact it was always public knowledge (thats why SP tried to have it banned when the Shocker was outlawed). We quoted a chrono procedure from day one where you hold the trigger back, release and fire quickly to see the effect of velocity climb and take that into account. Runaway was never allowed in tournaments so velocity climb at those rates was not a factor.

AGD

Personally where I play the rule is simple. As long as your marker quits shooting when you let your finger off the trigger, and is not set to simple full auto (I would not consider sweat spotting "simple" full auto, and my opinion in that call probably matters) its allowed. However, there are penalties if you break more than 4 balls on a player in an single aggressive move.

So no, to those defending bounce and attacking ramping in the same post, I don't think I am being a hypocrite, but you might consider the definition of the word.

[mostpeople]

Yes I did their chrono procedure and chrono'd at 255, the limit was 280..

point is guys, I never just held full bounce on the field... I just had it happen for the first time. Once the game was over I experimented and found I could hold it..

but it was friggin awesome lol

[mostpeople]

Also I was just thinking, along with the SPPL rules, a q-bow is an x-valved automag, thus it has RT, and a hopper that feeds 56 bps... since its fully mechanical its allowed. Need I say more?

[mag_lover05]

wow, everyone jumped to conclusions... glad to hear you enjoyed your mag! and yes, a super RT on a tippmann is FAR more dangerous than your mag (sounded to be) because the stock RT fittings and hoses are 1/16th diameter and the super RT is 1/8th, therefore allowing (personal test on my 98c) 23bps sustained because of twice the airflow. yea, none of you will believe it, untill someone out there unleashes on you (i got penalized, therefore took it off)

[Russ]

Oh, and for the record for those who dont know....I believe in semi-auto only. Its the only true measure of our shooting skill agaisnt others.

AMEN to that!

[Lomarandil]

No No No..

You can't just tell us you were at the SPPL, and not say anything more..

How dare you, sir?

Lo

[mostpeople]

lol, ok yeah our team placed 8th, but thats because we got rocked by crosstown on game 1... they won the tournament last year, and this year.

Game 2 was literally dead even, and I was wearing the commander tape. We got airstrike, but the ref's did not call it the way I asked them to, and therefore it was ineffective. However the game was literally dead even but they won by 4 points.

The last game was on the woodsball field, and we literally shut the other team down, I got into the trench in the middle of the field and was able to pick people off left and right on the trails.. I had 14 kills that game. This is the game where my gun started making me really happy. We eventually took their base and held them in it for the rest of the game - while it was flying our flag.

[Lohman446]

I havent seen anyone attack ramping but defend bounce in this thread. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If ramp is allowed, so should bounce.

ASTM doesnt distinguish between a ramping marker, and a full-auto marker, and a run-away marker. To say your marker is unsafe also means they are saying ramping is unsafe. Anything that shoots more than 1 ball per pull/release is the same.

Its just a way for them to dog on the mag. Well, now you know that in any given situation the mag can keep up and/or exceed the [sarcasm]super-markers[/sarcasm] of today.Wanna shoot strictly semi? The mag can keep up! Want to shoot ramp/full-auto? The mag can keep up! .

I would have considered the first part to be an attack on ramping, and the second a glorification of bounce.

And there is a vast difference between something operating in a way this is designed to be controlled and a malfunction that may or may not be controllable.

[p8ntbal4me]

In the real world of all things weapons: Bounce and full-auto are COMPLETELY different.

Like Rogue said,... each mode/fire has its measure of controllability over its usage.

The problem mags have is the effect the design on the valve to produce a "simular" effect to a common mode of fire we, as the world, call "full-auto".

In order to have "full-auto", the weapon/marker/gun must use a full "pull and hold" effect from the rest possision to the fire possision.

The problem with the players that dont do their homework is that they see the ease of "mechanical bounce" as "full auto". If you look how mechanical bounce works on a Mag, you can mechanically see that if you pull the trigger and hold it back with continued EQUAL FORCE (<----- this part is key!), then the gun will not bounce. If it does,... it jumps into another catagory of fire called "full-auto", hence bounce and full-auto do not share the same mechanics. They do share the same results for comparable ROF or speed,.. but one is not the same as the other.

Bounce requires a constant manipulation of the trigger assembly in order to achive the desired effect. Hence, now we have 2 types of bounce: Mechanical Bounce & Electronic Bounce.

Another HUGE annoyance over the "bounce" issue is the lable stupid or ignorant players whom do not continue to educate themselves past the tourney lables is how you define the term "bounce".

While I give credit to the people that know the differnce between "full-auto" and "bounce", there is still another level to be had. The battle over bouncing a trigger manually and electronically.

MY OPINION SECTION:
Players that can set their e-markers to use the "noise" in the trigger to bounce I feel should not be allowed to as most places set the standards. Players that use non-electronic markers should be allowed to mechanically modify their markers to shoot in a method that allows them to compete with the "other" e-markers speed.

I will use the local field to me as an example:
The rule is semi-auto. Nothing but semi-auto. No electronic bounce, no ramping, no full-auto, no auto response, no turbo. The shot buffer/multiplier must be 1.0 per trigger pull.
If one player has a Shocker, he must not beable to bounce the trigger. He can shoot any ROF he wishes.

Another player has an R/T Pro. Because his gun already inherantly has no ability to ramp, shot buffer, etc. these rules do not apply to him. He is allowed to bounce his trigger at any ROF he wishes. He however can not have a "run-away" gun as it is not safe and violates the rules of the field.

That section, again, is my opinion and the rules of where I play.
I personally agree with semi-auto for most cases on fields, except where the rules allow a bunch of idiot kids to set their guns into some ramp mode and use that, but a manual mag player cant bounce his trigger to keep up with the "ramping idiots".
I play where I play because the field sees the difference in bounce and full-auto. Guys that want to ramp but cant ALWAYS complain that Im bouncing my mag on the field. EVEN when I play pickup tourney ball as a stand in,.. and we are allowed to ramp at uncapped ROF,.. THEY STILL COMPLAIN! So that right there says to me that they either dont like the AGD marker out shooting their $1,800 EGOs, or they are just the same "tourney-clique-drone" that we all love to hate at the field every weekend we play.

Personally, I love bouncing my trigger and sending them running just because I know it makes them go crying to the judges. Last year in a big game 3 players I sent packing DRAGGED a judge over and showed him my gun. His reply: "Its a mag,.. thats what they do. Hes playing by the rules, you want to shoot like that, go get a mag."

I know the real world of weapon systems are not paintball. We try very hard to separate the 2. Problem with modes of fire is that we share them as a common bound. If its full-auto in a M240G machine gun,.. its full-auto in any paintball gun. If its 3 round burst on a M16A2, its 3 rounds burst on an WDP Angel LED. If its semi-auto on a M4, its semi-auto on a 2006 Shocker SFT. Modes that our sport made up currently as we know them, the real world would have to take into account if they used them.