Zomg!! My mag performed flawlessly at SPPL

[mostpeople]

Alrighty, went over and got a rule clarification, these rules were approved by the director of SPPL..

SPPL Generally Allowed Markers

All pump markers.

All non-electronic 68 and 62 caliber markers.

All Spyder and Illustrator based blow-back markers including those using the factory electronic grip frame.

All mechanical Autocockers, Automags and other purely mechanical markers.

All Tippmanns including those using response trigger (if allowed by host field) and all Tippmann factory electronic grip frames.

Mechanical markers using a response-style trigger (if allowed by field.)

Automags with Center-Flag Hyperframe.

Autocockers with Sandridge electronic conversion.

Full auto, response, turbo, and burst modes that are not within the disallowed list if allowed by the host fields rules.

The host field allowed it, it wasnt shooting over 15bps, and many people did it... the issue should be dead now.

[Arstron]

Alrighty, went over and got a rule clarification, these rules were approved by the director of SPPL..



The host field allowed it, it wasnt shooting over 15bps, and many people did it... the issue should be dead now.

The issue isnt you specificlly, this happens everytime somone brings up a bouncing automag.

Horay for pump!

[mostpeople]

This is the last place I expected to see people hate on automags...

[p8ntbal4me]

The issue isnt you specificlly, this happens everytime somone brings up a bouncing automag.

Horay for pump!

What pump u got boss?

I rock a GX-3 Sniper II (CCM pump kit)

[p8ntbal4me]

This is the last place I expected to see people hate on automags...

Its not a personal attack on you or mags,... its the fact of the RARE chance to see a mag allowed to bounce in a tourney, IMHO.

MOST cases of fields and events unlike the one you played in do not allow bouncing because of the problems now with e-markers.

Personally I think you did good on the mag community for running one on a field that a tourney was held. For that you should thank yourself!

The topic switched over to more of a fire mode and rule issue rather than what you may feel is "hate" for mags. Theres a few other threads like this on here,.. and the same people are in the discusion.

All in all Most,... you did good. No "hate" from me. Glad to see a mag on a legal event format,... now you have to make it a more regular thing!

[Arstron]

What pump u got boss?

I rock a GX-3 Sniper II (CCM pump kit)

Well I did just recently get rid of my phantom so I have been pumpless for awhile, but am in the process of building another stock class mag, just waiting on jay to get those pump ktis finished.

[p8ntbal4me]

Well I did just recently get rid of my phantom so I have been pumpless for awhile, but am in the process of building another stock class mag, just waiting on jay to get those pump ktis finished.

Slacker.

I bought a radio dog collar for him next time he gets out of line.

Simple press of a button and hes back in action!

[93civiccpe]

My 2 cents on this subject...

First, my background:
Player and paintball tech for the better part of the last decade.

My playing style:
Semi-only with bounce tuned out...


My thoughts on this topic:
I am fortunate to have a group of guys at a church I attend who go out regularly to play, and the majority of the time it is woodsball on a setup on private propery. Anyways, our rules were generally "anything goes" for modes, because you only have the air an paint you brought with you, so if you ran out of air/paint your day was over early. Some of us do haul scuba tanks out with us, so typically air isn't a big problem.

Anyways, we've had a lot of player use spyders with full auto or burst, and never had a real problem. You let go of the trigger and the firing stops. I have many mags, but I do not tune mine to go reactive. Probably because I am very conservative when it comes to paint and usually try to one-ball everyone. (I love taking a phantom pump against the team of electros and picking them off). Anyways, I've always made sure that anyone using a reactive marker have it set not to go to runaway.

Well, in the past we've had relatively no issues. A couple people getting overshot but nothing really bad. The last couple of times out, we've had some serious issues though. A lot of our younger guys with autocockers got e2's or e1's with the zero-b boards and had their ramping set up insane. Anyways, I watched a teammate two rounds in a row get shot, put his hands up and turn, and then still get hit with 10+ paintballs. I know a good bit of that is the shooters fault for not stopping soon enough, but the fact that some of their markers in ramping mode will throw 3 or 4 paintballs after you let go of the trigger is what bothers me about the ramping mode. That has caused the amount of people getting overshot to increase and a lot of tension (and almost a fight) at a field of guys who are usually very calm-natured and friends with each other.

In a tournament setting where everyone has ramping available, I think it is perfectly fine. But we've had to re-look at how we want to play because we have a lot of kids still playing with stock tippman 98's or mechanical spyders. The remarks we got last time was "I can walk it to 15 anyways, so it doesn't matter". My response was, and will always be, "then do it, and stop complaining". We played the last round out there with electro markers only being allowed in semi, and the reactivity tuned back on the mechanicals which were set up with an RT setup. And surprisingly enough we had one of the best days with the fewest complaints. We did catch 2 who had switched their marker to ramp and it was obvious.. you can hear when a marker ramps. They got sat down for a couple rounds and were told that if they did it again they were going home. No problems after that.

From my own experience, here's what I've found:

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..

[p8ntbal4me]

From my own experience, here's what I've found:

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..

Im not going to argue your point and opinions here, just wanted to clarify 2 small things (I know you ment them this way but it may read a bit different, bare with me)

-A properly tuned ASTM (sp?) standards marker mode of "ramp" will not allow the extra shots past the release of the trigger to the rest possition. <---- pretty much why TURBO is not allowed anymore due to the extra shots are honored no matter if the trigger was releases or not.

But in most cases like you said,.. they do give the extra because players crank the debounce up to an unsafe level.

The other opinion is yours,... and based on your post above,... your opinion of R/T to full-auto will work for you. Not going to argue your point of safety 93.

[Pneumagger]

wow, everyone jumped to conclusions... glad to hear you enjoyed your mag! and yes, a super RT on a tippmann is FAR more dangerous than your mag (sounded to be) because the stock RT fittings and hoses are 1/16th diameter and the super RT is 1/8th, therefore allowing (personal test on my 98c) 23bps sustained because of twice the airflow. yea, none of you will believe it, untill someone out there unleashes on you (i got penalized, therefore took it off)

Actually, dicounting shear flow losses, if the diameter is doubled the flow area is quadrupled. And then there's the pressure differences that can result in Mag's having a faster ultimate recharge. But yeah, we get your point - and I agree that the way his mag apears to be was way safer than an RT Tippy. Those high bounce RT tippy's are tough to get single shots off with.

And also... I for one believe that NXL full auto is the safest of all "enhanced modes". It allows both the firing of 1 or 2 solo shots, as well as full auto capability. On a full auto, when you release the trigger the gun stops that moment. On a "ramping" marker (PSP, OMFG, # shots/pull added) the marker predeterminately continues to fire after you release the trigger - you can succinctly stop the gun, especially in some of these crazy "+15 per pull" cheater type modes. In short... it's easier to overshoot someone in assisted ramping versus full auto.

[Pneumagger]

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..

You can control the ROF of a so-called "runnaway" mag with your finger or the pressure. Don't argue this - there is video evidence that proves your point wrong. Also, "runaway" refers a gn that is uncontrollably shotting and cannot be stopped. A reactive mag can be controlled to start, stop, or not do it all together based on how hard you pull the trigger. "Reactive mag" is a far more approprite term for bouncy mags than "runaway".

I do agree with you on added shot ramping though. That is in it's own class. I personally think that there are 3 main classes (each with subdivisions, of course) - pump, semi, ramping, full auto. IMO RT can either be full auto or semi depending on the user is employing it.

[craltal]

Fine, he "bounced." That said I still have issue with it due to the nature of how it's achieved. You are taking the mechanical operations and playing with them in a manner that it was not designed for, potentially leading to undue wear on parts which will lead to a failure of the deemed "control."

I give you kudos for not using it during the games and I'm not hating on mags or you. Obviously my opinion differs from some others here.

[mostpeople]

So we agree to disagree...


I for one however beleive that a sear designed to push the trigger back out, is designed to help it bounce - but again thats personal opinion.

[craltal]

So we agree to disagree...

agreed.

[turbo chicken]

those rules rock ...

simplified ... limit your feed rate thus limit your ROF ... best rule ever ... so bust out your old revy and go to town ...