Is this crazy?

[RogueFactor]

Mags are notorious for being inefficient... How about working on that?

So is every blow forward design. Dont you think the boys at AKA when they were making mods for AGD markers in the 90's could have cooked up something in that department if it were possible? We all know how efficient the Viking is...why couldnt they do it with a mag?

Simple. Efficiency is determined by the inherent design of the valve. Blow forwards will always be less efficient than poppets. Tom tried, and the benefits were marginal. 10% at best, he said. So if you get 1000 balls now, youll get a whole extra 100 balls. Not enough to warrant the cost of a re-design, or the title "new & improved". How much is anyone willing to pay for an extra 100 balls?

Ever wonder why no company has ever put out statistical evidence on their "efficiency mods"....because most of them dont do ANYTHING. Its hype. Magic fairy dust that you sprinkle on your marker combined with the placebo effect. They cant put out the numbers, because the numbers cant be duplicated. Wouldnt want to say "you can get 1500 shots of this", then be proven wrong when the marker doesnt do that and have to take all your product back. So instead they tell you its lighter, and how that alone should solve your efficiency issues...but make no promises so they arent responsible when it doesnt do what it says it will do.

Just like 99.9999% of all barrels do the EXACT same thing. Its a tube. But that special spiralling you have, or the fact its 16" barrel is going to somehow give you more distance on a projectile with a limited velocity of 300 fps.

AGD re-vamped their whole line between 2001-2004. If the "new" approach didnt work then, what makes anyone think doing the same thing will have a different result.

[speed_ga]

wow AGD must be a one man operation. And running small runs to replace parts is a good thought. But really think about it. AGD is running out of stock and will soon be dead. Thats just my opinion. Even autococker is coming out with two new guns this month. AGD was one of my favorite companies when I started playing paintball. Now they act like they have run out of ideas and can't come up with something new. Yes the automag is a great gun and i'm not trying to say to reinvent a new gun but make the automag better. Look at wgp. The autococker is one gun that will be around longer than AGD because they are at least trying to compete with companies with ideas that actually put them into action!


the price increase is just AGD trying to make some more money before they decide to go cold turkey on the paintball community.

Me with a mag now
A year from now when AGD decides to go cold turkey:

but I sold my mag and got a Pm6 evil minion for 485 NIB. All I gotta say is cheers mate it was a good run of the automag.

mabey we could all put our money together and buy AGD and teach them something about innovation and design of the future

[RogueFactor]

How about a proactive anti-chop system

Part of the XMag. Nobody liked it. Gotta have break beams! OMG

programmable trigger

What part of AGD not paying SP dont you understand?

ability to fire in current league modes

Against ASTM standards. Something Tom has stated he wont violate due to risk.

a stock adjustable feed neck

RPG Exile, RPG Pariah. Done.

an internal air line system to start with.

That alone should sell 100,000 of them!!! Great idea!! Man, all these years had Tom only known that the internal air line was the solution to all his problems!!!

Just repacking of what has been around for years...

Oh... wait, not in a mag.

Let me know when you have something that really warrants the title of "new". K, thanks.

[RogueFactor]

Well my Mag is more efficent than the Ion and PM5 I had

Interesting huh.

I agree, the Blow-Forward's are all relatively as efficient as the other. Some companies are just better at BS'ing you to believe otherwise.

[zaqwert6]

Part of the XMag. Nobody liked it. Gotta have break beams! OMG

Performance of it is far subpar amongst the competition.I had a few that didn't work out of the box and/or required daily adjustment.



What part of AGD not paying SP dont you understand?

If they so hard up for business and money , maybe they should finally get off the pot and pay like everyone else. Maybe give WDP a call.



Against ASTM standards. Something Tom has stated he wont violate due to risk.

They can still have modes at lower BPS marks. AGDs already released full auto software and mags the bounce at wiil (RT)



RPG Exile, RPG Pariah. Done.


Think he meant AGD , not aftermarket sources


That alone should sell 100,000 of them!!! Great idea!! Man, all these years had Tom only known that the internal air line was the solution to all his problems!!!

No but would look like something 'new'



Let me know when you have something that really warrants the title of "new". K, thanks.

There isn't anything truly new left to do. From here on out you have price points and feature set and 'new' to us.

[RogueFactor]

Performance of it is far subpar amongst the competition.I had a few that didn't work out of the box and/or required daily adjustment.

IMO, the performance of break beams is subpar to Level 10. Break beams only recognize if there is paint in the breech or not. They dont do anything to be soft on paint. Unlike the Level 10.

If they so hard up for business and money , maybe they should finally get off the pot and pay like everyone else. Maybe give WDP a call.

They dont want to. Its been said, and repeated many times. Dont see that changing.

They can still have modes at lower BPS marks. AGDs already released full auto software and mags the bounce at wiil (RT)

AGD didnt release full-auto software. They released software that malfunctioned, and recalled it with a free software upgrade.

Its moot. You want modes, use XMod. You have the option, just not from AGD.


Think he meant AGD , not aftermarket sources.

Its cut from an AGD body. With a clamping feedneck. So whats the complaint?


No but would look like something 'new'

Yes, of course. Thats what they want, appearances.

There isn't anything truly new left to do. From here on out you have price points and feature set and 'new' to us.

Very, Very true.

It is what it is.

[nathanjones008]

have faith.

saying there is no room for improvements is like saying miracles do not exist.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

And please tell us what AGD should come out with? The gun design is near perfect...

How about an efficient gun...


Yeah, RF already covered it, but so what. I still believe AGD should come out with an efficient marker design. They did everything else successfully, but failed at efficiency.

[zaqwert6]

RE: Rogue -


L10 is inconsistant on soft paint as well , also requires more tuning for normal use and occasionally additional tuning depending on velocity needs (FPS Limit changes i.e - Indoor VS outdoor fields) Breaks beam eyes , "IMO" and the majority of the paintball buying public , is a superior system that acts before it's to late and not after. Eyes were 'new' technology in it's day , L10 was a fix for a Mag flaw as well as nothing new. Soft hit bolts and low impact bolt syetems existed prior to L10.

As for 'Modes' . . . maybe you weren't around for early AGD software but they did include burst and full auto modes way back.

The point was of course you can buy an aftermarket part for your mag , it was suggested the certain parts be included by the manufacturere , from the manufacturer. Personally I'd rather outfit with the parts I choose but I understand the sentiment. As far as I know , AGD doesn't sell RPG product included with your purchase.

[RogueFactor]

RE: Rogue -

L10 is inconsistant on soft paint as well , also requires more tuning for normal use and occasionally additional tuning depending on velocity needs (FPS Limit changes i.e - Indoor VS outdoor fields) Breaks beam eyes , "IMO" and the majority of the paintball buying public , is a superior system that acts before it's to late and not after. Eyes were 'new' technology in it's day , L10 was a fix for a Mag flaw as well as nothing new. Soft hit bolts and low impact bolt syetems existed prior to L10.

As for 'Modes' . . . maybe you weren't around for early AGD software but they did include burst and full auto modes way back.

The point was of course you can buy an aftermarket part for your mag , it was suggested the certain parts be included by the manufacturere , from the manufacturer. Personally I'd rather outfit with the parts I choose but I understand the sentiment. As far as I know , AGD doesn't sell RPG product included with your purchase.

Break beam eyes were a fix for a flaw in markers that chopped paint at high ROF's. 'New technology' is introduced to improve previous 'flaws'. Thats true for other markers, as well as the mag. Soft hit/Low Impact---they must have worked well....which ones are you referring to? And of those which are still around?

Ive found through multiple hundreds of mags that L10 is quite consistent on paint. And requires little tuning after initial set-up for normal use. At all FPS.

Break beam eyes however cease to function, or become very inconsistent once paint breaks in the breech. Which is the reason for the "Force Mode". And they often require excessive cleaning upkeep to keep functioning properly. Something not necessary with the L10.

Which is why the Level 10 is superior, IMO.

As for modes...I was around. As previously stated:due to ASTM and insurance standards, these things were changed. Which is why the software was updated not to include them, and you can no longer get them from AGD. Until ASTM and Insurance standards change back to what they once were, maybe AGD would consider it.

Re: Parts from the mfr.- Actually, the original sentiment as I understood it was there was 'nothing new'. One of which was an ULE body with clamping feedneck. Their availability exists, from OEM AGD bodiess. So what was the point again? That it cant be had direct? OH yeah....thats something to complain about.

Im sure I can work something out with AGD, if that would solve the complaint. Do you think it would?

[Russ]

Boo-friggin' hoo, the price went up.


maybe what the kiddies need is for AGD to sell-out, and the new owners can start up production in China, and sell the markers at Wal-Mart for $149. Change the anno every year, and call it "new and improved"

There are a lot of markers out on the market. Get the one that suits you

[RogueFactor]

Boo-friggin' hoo, the price went up.


maybe what the kiddies need is for AGD to sell-out, and the new owners can start up production in China, and sell the markers at Wal-Mart for $149. Change the anno every year, and call it "new and improved"

There are a lot of markers out on the market. Get the one that suits you

[Shane-O-Mac]

How about an efficient gun...


Yeah, RF already covered it, but so what. I still believe AGD should come out with an efficient marker design. They did everything else successfully, but failed at efficiency.

Again, I'll say it, Mags are on par with modern spooler electro guns (efficiency wise), so whats the big deal? You want a highly efficent gun? Buy a Viking, I get 5 pods on 2000psi from a 45/45 tank. But its not a Mag is it? None of the current Uber guns are all that efficent anymore, it isnt a selling point now. And like Rogue said, there isnt any more efficency to be had out of the current design, (Blow Forward) and would it be an AGD product if it went to stacked tube? Would anyone buy a completely different AGD gun? AND the big problem, is financing all that developement and startup costs of a completely new gun. Selling more guns doesnt equate to more money being made. Daily costs goes up as production does, so a company selling 3000 guns a year can be as profitable as a company selling 20,000 guns a year. It is now needed to have things made overseas to make more money, and thats just not what AGD wants to do. It's easy to armchair quaterback for AGD, but most people have no clue what it takes to do what they think is "Easy". Everything that people are wanting to be had from AGD is available in other guns and from other companys, and that helps keep a good market. And to be perfectly honest, it is better to buy a gun on the used market, than new these days.

So my bottomline is this. WHY should AGD do all these things, when they are perfectly happy with the situation as it stands? Just to make other people happy and make the same amount of money, or less?

Shane-O

[Lohman446]

Part of the XMag. Nobody liked it. Gotta have break beams! OMG



What part of AGD not paying SP dont you understand?



Against ASTM standards. Something Tom has stated he wont violate due to risk.



RPG Exile, RPG Pariah. Done.



That alone should sell 100,000 of them!!! Great idea!! Man, all these years had Tom only known that the internal air line was the solution to all his problems!!!



Let me know when you have something that really warrants the title of "new". K, thanks.

They are all new Rogue. The eye system on the X-mag in the breech was not great. Besides, say I want one now. Let me just check into the AGD website... oh.. no not there.

Not violating ASTM standards? I apparently forgot all those E-mags that were shipped with version 1? that had multi-shot options.

I was not talking aftermarket bodies to get the solutions.

K, thanks, new



Mags are state of the art, cutting edge. The ONLY reason they are not more popular is marketing and stupid paintball players. There could never be anything better

[Lohman446]

So my bottomline is this. WHY should AGD do all these things, when they are perfectly happy with the situation as it stands? Just to make other people happy and make the same amount of money, or less?

Shane-O

I can agree with that exact sentiment. If TK is happy with AGD where it is now, if it fits his risk to reward ratio, why do anything else?

I am not going to even pretend to tell AGD what to do. TK is a pretty smart guy, and its his company that he has made successful for a long time.

However, to state, as some have seemed to, that AGD is moving forward at this point in design, that there are "no" new ideas that could be incorporated, is ridiculous.