Crossfire Regs

[P8ntballerAK]

ok thanks tom, that is what we needed was a guide. I will try to contact the makers of this reg and get a written statement from them. I would take their advertising but that goes through a few loops before it is published, so I want to see if i can get it from the mouth of the horse so there is no dispute on what was truly stated. thanks again tom.

while I am at this could you guys see if my 2 tests have holes(im sure they do) and punch as many as you can through them.

[Doc Nickel]

Well illustrated, Tom.

As for manufacturers claims, earlier posts described a video that supposedly demonstrated the reg's apparently superior flow rate. I haven't seen it, does anyone have a copy? That would do for a "manufacturers claim", I think.

After that, a testing protocol can be laid out.

Doc.

[Butterfingers]

I beleive that video resides on www.paintballchannel.com

left hand margin scroll down and find a format you like

[cledford]

List of Claims...

Here they are again. These were taken as direct quotes from the Crossfire Inc. website and quotes from their video...

Doc - a not so easy to see video can be had from their website - doens't just show the Angel test (shows a lot of other crap too) but will give you an idea of what they do.

Lists the video and website URLs below also.

"more shots per fill"

"patented design that achieves awesome recharge rates during rapid firing"

"virtually no drop off during 11bps"

"unmatched quality and testing"

"fastest reacting and most reliable systems on the market."

"If you are looking for a regulator that can keep up with any gun Crossfire should be your choice."

"We just don't say ours has the highest flow rate we prove it."

"We attend the tournaments with 6 Angels set at 11 balls a second on full auto. On these markers there are certified liquid filled gauges displaying the performance, along with all of the competitions regs. Now, some of these systems perform well, and we are not afraid to show that. WE BEAT THEM ALL !"

"Constant pressure is critical to your accuracy and you know that if you are playing with a system that can't keep up, you are not as effective."

"At Crossfire we do extensive testing on our product to make sure it is safe. That is why we had all of our valves tested by an independent lab to meet and exceed the standards set by the CGA and ASTM."

http://www.crossfireinc.com/

http://www.pbreview.com/250/1/0/

http://www.pbreview.com/642/1/0/

[AGD]

I am going to stay involved with this for a bit to get the ball rolling.

With the claims above the two that stand out in my mind are:

"fastest reacting // on the market."

"We just don't say ours has the highest flow rate we prove it."

These two claims above the others state that the product exists at the very end of the performance spectrum. Since this is a highly desireable position and would certainly require engineering skill, it looks like a good thing to investigate.

I would get written confirmation that they in fact support these claims.

AGD

[cledford]

I don't know if they ship any documents with the new system that I bought that state these claims - I'll have to wait till it arrives.

I will call Crossfire/Chris back tomorrow to see what they will provide in writing. I'm just guessing - but it probably won't be a lot - the statements from their website might have to suffice.

-Calvin


Here is the full statement:

Crossfire has just added two new 4500psi regulators to its line. With unmatched quality and testing it is no wonder why Crossfire valves are the first choice of players looking for the fastest reacting and most reliable systems on the market.
Our red base regulator has a fixed output of 800psi. While the blue base has a fixed output pressure of 450psi.

If you are looking for a regulator that can keep up with any gun Crossfire should be your choice. We just don't say ours has the highest flow rate we prove it. We attend the tournaments with 6 Angels set at 11 balls a second on full auto. On these markers there are certified liquid filled gauges displaying the performance, along with all of the competitions regs. Now, some of these systems perform well, and we are not afraid to show that. WE BEAT THEM ALL ! Constant pressure is critical to your accuracy and you know that if you are playing with a system that can't keep up, you are not as effective.

At Crossfire we do extensive testing on our product to make sure it is safe. That is why we had all of our valves tested by an independent lab to meet and exceed the standards set by the CGA and ASTM.

[Dubstar112]

I have a crossfire LP out put reg, if I can help in any way just let me know.

Dana

[cledford]

Just an update, the reg should be here any day...

Still waiting for the Crossfire system to arrive - will notify once it arrives.

-Calvin

[cledford]

Got it, here is a quick subjective review...

I received my new Crossfire system via UPS last night. Unfortunately I was in class yesterday evening and the rental office was closed by the time I got home. I was unable to pick the system up until this morning - which I did. I purchased a 4500psi, 45Ci, high output (800 psi) model for a little over $200 dollars, including shipping.

Here are my impressions so far - yuck! I realize that what I'm getting ready to relate is subjective and not something that will necessarily have any impact on the performance claims we intend to test, but the information might be useful anyhow.

First, these guys aren't "rocket scientists" of paintball in my opinion - at least not in the shipping department. The IDIOTS who shipped the system just slapped a label on the standard (very thin) product box. The box had a hole it when I picked it up, with bottle fiber showing through. The bottle was fine, but it was still a scare. They basically wrapped the reg portion in bubble wrap, but the box it's self was super thin and tightly fit to the bottle - and there was no packing material at all! I bought the system directly from Crossfire, Inc, so you would think they'd know how to protect and ship an air system properly.

A quick visual review of the system shows some tell-tail signs of why the systems are so "reasonably" priced - they're made of cheap components! The fill nipple looks like some type of very cheap, soft metal that has a very poor plating on. It already started to rub off after the first fill! The Reg portion (which is anodized Red to indicate a 800 psi output system) arrived *pre-scratched* for me The assembly is horrible - they used teflon tape (A BIG no-no in my book) on the gauge and fill nipple and it looks like they cut it using their teeth. No one working in the HPA market should do such a shoddy job taping fittings and no one in the paintball HPA market should be using teflon tape at all - since it can come off inside the air system and blow through the marker until expensive solenoids are destroyed. It looks like they used red lock-tite to seal the burst disks - which makes me wonder what happens when the system over pressurizes and you need to replace one. In any event, the gook they used to seal the burst disks isn't what I'd call "professionally" applied.

Other items of note, the Crossfire Logo is on a cheap (already starting to peel) sticker and the bottle threads look to be plated in the same cheap process that was used on the nipple.

I can say that first appearances carry a lot of weight with me. Obviously we are not contemplating a beauty contest here, we aim to verify/validate the manufactures claims of performance. That having been said (even though I guess I should expect less in the "appearance" area based on what I paid) I would think that a conscientious manufacturer who was producing a product that outperformed it's peers would make more effort to have a system that didn't appear "cheap" in all outward respects.

Again these comments are subjective and have no bearing on the TECHNICAL test we plan to conduct - but I thought I'd share what I could today.

Tonight I'll post some pics of the system and start things rolling with the getting the test plan together.

Oh, BTW the system did not ship with ANY documentation at all. Nothing in writing about the performance claims or even a set of instructions. It did have a warrantee card enclosed.

-Calvin

[rudy]

just a question does every one really find teflon tape to be worse then locktite, I mean who says a particle of dried locktite isnt going to go through your gun and cause a reg seat to creep or mess up your soleniod. I personally have both and when it comes time to take a gun apart I prefer teflon because it is easier for me to clean up.

BTW i know a guy who works at crossfire It wouldnt surprise me if it was scratched already

[nerobro]

Well.. it sounds like you got a used/remanufactured reg. that doesnt' sound new.. it at least sounds abused....

What get's me is the claim ofmore shots. How do you get more shots from a regulator.... it meters out the air the gun asks for. it will ask the same of any reg. and get the same amount of air. That's a claim I'd throw out imediately..

[cledford]

Not sure...

Can't say for sure if it's remanufactured - but I 'm guessing not. I just don't think they put a lot of effort into their product. I would expect more wear if remanufactured, it jus looks like it'd been thrown around.

-Calvin

[hitech]

Re: Got it, here is a quick subjective review...

Originally posted by cledford
The assembly is horrible - they used teflon tape (A BIG no-no in my book) on the gauge and fill nipple...no one in the paintball HPA market should be using teflon tape at all - since it can come off inside the air system...

When I wanted to switch the gagues and fill nipple on my flatline to the other side and asked Tom what to seal them with. He said teflon tape. I have ALWAYS used teflon tape (over 15 years worth) and NEVER had a problem. As long as you know how to use it, it will not come off in the air stream.

[FreshmanBob]

I had a crossfire reg replace my old stainless apocalypse at IAO and i did notice the cheap looking plating but haven't had any problems. Also, I've never had any problems with teflon tape either. The only thing I didn't like about mine is the tight fit into the ASA.

[TRIAD]

A few months ago I dropped my crossfire reg on cement. It bent the lip on the tank that forms the o-ring groove. It worked fine after that, but just a couple weeks ago, I had it filled, and it leaked out overnight. I contacted Crossfire, and they said to send it back. Less than 10 days later, I have my tank back, with the top (silver) part of the reg replaced. The plating isn't the cheap chrome, it is a duller chrome that looks more durable. They didn't charge me a dime, all I had to do is get it there. It has a good recharge rate, and the tank works great. Combine that with absolutely amazing customer service, and you've got a great company. All you have to do is be very polite with them, and they'll help you with your problems. I never filled out my warranty card, I didn't include a receipt, they didn't call me, they didn't email me. Today, the tank just arrived at my door. THAT is what I call customer service, and THAT is why I will continue to reccomend Crossfire Nitrogen Systems to potential buyers.