How many times can an autococker cycle per second?

[Wat]

Vegeta,

One of the problems with lightening mass to increase cycling speed is that most cocker owners nullify it by decreasing the LPR output pressure. Lightening reciprocating mass will allow you to either increase cycling speed or lower ram pressure, not both.

As for ball suckage, i had a thought last night that will easily allow us to determine how much ball suckage there really is and hopefully someone with the time and tools (AGD hint hint) can performe this experiment for me.

Attach a ball to a string. Attach the string to a calibrated strain guage or other force measuring device that does not allow the ball to move. Now rest the ball so that it is just above the bolt in a verticle feed gun with the string running straight up to the strain gauge. Cycle the gun and measure any increase in force on the ball. A decrease in force would mean blow back, although in this setup we couldn't measure the magnitude of it.

We could determine the amount of ball suckage, add gravity and we'll get max feed rate.

[314159]

i have had my autococker (before i switched to the trigger plate with just a hole in it) suck a tissure ball into the chamber, and about half an inch into the barrel before.

if you could harness this power in a mag tom, you would rock.

[Doc Nickel]

Actually, Wat, the hammer mainspring is what ultimately decides overall LPR pressure.

While a lighter bolt and block will indeed help the overall assembly cycle faster, the mainspring regulates the force necessary for each full cycle.

Lighter mainspring, less LPR pressure. Heavier mainspring, more pressure.

Now while cycling fast, yes, a little additional pressure is needed to overcome inertia, but that is, I think, only a fraction of what the mainspring requires.

And Pi, check that "tissue trick" again but with a ball in the chamber. Getting suction is not a problem. Keeping it when actually firing paint is something else entirely.

Doc.

[Wat]

Yeah Doc, i wasn't thinking. Since thats the case, then ultra light bolts and back blocks would do next to nothing to increase cycling speed. I'm sure shocktech would say the same thing about their superfly :)

[fenris69]

ok then

So essentially, there is no max cyclic rate available yet...till someone tunes a cocker for max bps rather than lp. dont think thats happening soon!

hm. actually...has anyone looked at the excalibur for any of these tests? since one can adjust the timing of the various functions in ms , you should be able to get a ballpark figure of how fast a 'closed bolt' marker can cycle, although youd have to agree on how long each should take ie. how many ms should the bolt be forward.It would be a pain to feed paint in there tho. Anyone want to mail warpig see if theyre up for another 'test' ?
:)

[nerobro]

i'm sure the lighter blocks and bolts help with how much recoil you get ;-) But that's not the topic of discussion is it. IF you wanna check out the data acqusition thread.. we're trying to put and end to this by just doing the freaking testing ;-)

[314159]

"You van ask Cpt. Klutz at www.racegun.dk. He is the forum manager. You can get all of your questions answered at their forum. He is currently building a side feed cocker for a warp and will be displaying it at Skyball in toronto. Hopen this helps!"-Dkarc

just saw this at pbnation, i will be keeping an eye out for this at skyball

[DefiantGuy3901]

i have seen that hammers weigh around 1.2 to 1.9 oz, so that with a 2.2 bolt would be at leat 3.4 oz which is 3 times the super bolt, but the hammer doesn't move very far so i doubt it would make to much of a difference...

[res0qjp2]

cycle rate

Centerflag has a electronic frame coming out for the autococker and it rocks.

[FeelTheRT]

"The stock Autococker is only able to cycle about 10-11 bps. While the STOs and Blackmagics can cycle upto 13-14 bps." -Dennis Ashley of Centerflag Products.

[max-mag]

if all anyone wants is proof, then where's the proof that the RT valve can do 23-26 BPS? Also, on my less intelligent side, "Wouldn't it be cool to watch a video clip of the RT doing 25 BPS?"



AGD is the best!!!!!

[SPOOKI]

SPECULATION...

the truth of the matter is that you can't exactly say how many times per second a cocker can cycle... There are too many variables. I've owned three cockers so far and they all shoot differently. The question must be more specific. With so many add-ons that can be put on a cocker it's impossible to give an accurate ROF for them. About the most accurate estimation you can give is that a decent cocker will fire as fast as you can pull the trigger (without short stroking it of course).

[314159]

without hitting around the bush, i think that the point that tom is trying to make is that the automag will always cycle faster due to it's design.

this is not saying that you can get the autococker to cycle real fast with mods and tricks, but how high of a rate of fire do you need? and do you want to spend extra cash on paint to show off how much paint you can fling with your uber marker around the field?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by AGD
Deep Blue is not about guessing or stating what you heard somewhere else so it must be true. You have to back up your statements with good reasoning, facts or research.

So far I have not heard anything convincing that cockers can shoot 13bps. Cycle speed is different from shooting speed because the bolt has to be open long enough to drop a ball.

AGD

With paint being force fed into the gun by air flow and mechanical operation of the trigger with a vaiable speed drill I can easily get "shooting" speeds of up to 20 balls per second with my auto-cocking guns and do it without any "shoot down" at all if there is adequte air supply to the gun at 500 - 600 psi.
Actual cycling speed potential is beyond what I have the means to measure accurately. I haven't yet found the point at which the valve "floats". Like out-reving the valve train on a car motor. If your typical automobile engine can rev to say 5000 rpm safely a paintgun should be able to easily do half of that; so 2500 RPM works out to 41.666 blasts of air per second.

[thei3ug]

Originally posted by max-mag
if all anyone wants is proof, then where's the proof that the RT valve can do 23-26 BPS? Also, on my less intelligent side, "Wouldn't it be cool to watch a video clip of the RT doing 25 BPS?"

AGD has a room with a computer and a bunch of sensors that can measure the recharge rate of a regulator.
I've seen an RT be put on it. The RT is inarguably the fastest recharging reg, and will do so up to that speed before dropoff.