The state of our economy...

[Lohman446]

Again only the strong will survive. you have to learn to adapt, and learn more skills. Yes those fields have been rock solid for years, and before that being a cowboy was a great profession.

So, only those that one defines as strong should be given any assistance? Every major religion teaches to help those less fortunate than you. Or, more to the point.... no studentl loans, grants, or any other form of assistance?

[drg]

People who have not worked long in a field do not realize exactly how scary it is when industries are threatened to the point where you may have to leave your long-term line of work entirely and enter another line where all your experience and skills may not even apply. People who have not built up significant investments don't realize how scary it is when tenuous economic positions threaten to take the fruits of years and years of hard labor and lose them in a speculative cloud seemingly overnight.

You could "be the best" but if your industry is devastated by the economy, technology, outsourcing, or any number of business decisions possible literally at the drop of a hat, you may face the very real prospect that you cannot continue on in the field you are "the best" in.

Mann, your views are very idealistic and it's great you can get by the way you are. But how much of your outlook is based on an assumed future, and how much is based on reality?

BTW your Hawaii taxi driver example seems off the mark, can you show where you got your figures?

Only thing I could find is this: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...hdCurrentTab=1

[Swampy]

As for the grass company....I have no professional experience there. I made bank mowing yards when I was 12-14, but havent done it since. I know I was able to purchase (on my own) a jeep and a ninja 250 when I was 15 so it cant be that bad.

But see you didn't have to pay for business licenses, insurance, taxes. I started doing the same thing as well in my younger years to buy the original Playstation. The company I used to work for (switching jobs) carried over a .5MIL in coverage, because the bigger mowers pick up just about everything in the lawn and throw it. Last year I picked up a stone with the deck of the ZTR and it came out like a bird shot against someones '71 Mustang. Another accident I had, even though it was his fault, I was backing up a SuperDuty when I was plowing (with all the bells and whistles blowing and a big sticker say "KEEP BACK 200ft") well needless to say I put the right rear tire almost on roof of a Saturn.

I work in WI and its not a secret we have one of the highest taxes in the country. Last year the company's taxes was about $40,000 just for the state.

With all the licensing that happens with our industry. Again we have to pay for that as well. The yearly business license renewal, Certified Landscaping License, Chemical Applicators License.

Also when we were young we ended up using home owner equipment or Outdoor Power Equipment as its called now. The cost to have commercial equipment is about 4 times than outdoor power equipment. We did try to cheap out one season and use home owner push mowers instead of commercial push mowers well in about 3 months of heavy use it didn't want to start again. A home owner "Personal Pace" from Toro runs about $400 new, a Commercial 21in from Toro runs about $1100. There are differences between the two, the personal pace is a belt drive vs the commercial is a gear drive. The deck is heavier on the commercial and the engine is a 2 cycle.

Again the green industry costs can't be compared to the young guns mowing the neighbors lawn.

[mr.mag218]

to MANN

i have agreed with everything youve said except #4. the problem is that to save money companys are firing those who have worked their way up because they make the most, and they don't want to take a pay cut because they have worked for so long to get to that salary. IMO alot of companys are looking for someone who will work full time for them, but only as long as they need them, once that person gets too expensive, they throw them to the curb and hire in some new jockey to take that pay. great for the company to keep someone around for 8 an hour for half a year, then as soon as they need a 50c raise screw them over. shoot i have friends who bust their hump working every hour they can at 8 an hour at machine shops, but they won't ask for a raise for fear of getting fired.

i guess what im trying to say is that the work ethic has not been lost, but how you move up in the world has. you don't have to be the smartest, but be able to outsmart the smartest and get him fired so you can move in his place for 1$ more an hour.

EDIT: didn't read all the posts cuz they were entirely too long but if this was already said i hope mine was the shorter version.

[MANN]

Respectfully...

In saying that you would be VERY VERY wrong.

Thats not even counting the time and money I spend dealing with an ex in court.

At least your being respectful about it.

I also should state that all college is not equal, and not all pets are equal. ( a goldfish is alot less time consuming than a ferret ) And most of all not all children are equal. I am not sure how a divorce fits into the equation.

I have been through a divorce (as a dependent) and know they can get bad. Good luck if you are still going through it. You will find the responsible parent gets the shaft.

[MANN]

Mann, I was not meaning to call you, or anyone else for that matter, out specifically.

no offense taken/ heck we are still on the interwebs.

Being in the position that I see my own economic situation worsening, due to many factors. I am not a lazy person when it comes to business. Perhaps a bit misguided and uninspired at times, but never lazy. I took a bit of exception to the whole 'retort' as it were, in spite of it not specifically targeting me.

Please note I am not tring to call you lazy. I know you have been through a lot, and learned a lot. Just remember the sun will shine another day. From the outside looking in it seems that you are becoming a better person for what happened.

BTW I have talked to 3 -4 friends and they are all suposto have decisions made about tunaballl by april 1. I will pm/email you and let you know what the status is.

[MANN]

So, only those that one defines as strong should be given any assistance? Every major religion teaches to help those less fortunate than you. Or, more to the point.... no studentl loans, grants, or any other form of assistance?

Anyone that is willing to help themselves should be helped. Again I see too many people who cry poverty on their iphone. That is not poverty. Those people can buy gas at 3.08 a gal.

Student loans, grants, assistance are wonderful. I don't necessary agree with how they are distributed sometimes, but agree that they are needed to help those who are less fortunate.

[MANN]

Again the green industry costs can't be compared to the young guns mowing the neighbors lawn.

I am clueless when it comes to all the other BS that comes with "green industry". You would probably do a little better if you were living in say FL, South CA, TX, or south wouldnt you?

[punkncat]

no offense taken/ heck we are still on the interwebs.



Please note I am not tring to call you lazy. I know you have been through a lot, and learned a lot. Just remember the sun will shine another day. From the outside looking in it seems that you are becoming a better person for what happened.

BTW I have talked to 3 -4 friends and they are all suposto have decisions made about tunaballl by april 1. I will pm/email you and let you know what the status is.

Thanks a lot!!!
It really does mean a lot to me for you to say that. I am truly working hard to correct a lot of my character faults, and trying to learn to be a positive force and not a negative one where I can. Perfection never happens, we can merely work at it.

As far as Tunaball....I am still pondering it a lot. If y'all decide to drive up it may make the difference as I am not to keen on trying to fly right now.
LMK on that.

[Lohman446]

I run into a problem with hand outs. I was signing my child up for bible school one day that the churches food pantry happened to be opened. The people loading food they had begged for into the back of fairly new SUVs bothered me.

There is a need for support. There is a need to helping those less fortunate, especially those trying to better themselves.

The governments system is broken, and frankly so are some of the more local level charities.

One of the problems is is there is absolutely no shame left in some people.

[MANN]

Mann, your views are very idealistic and it's great you can get by the way you are. But how much of your outlook is based on an assumed future, and how much is based on reality?

BTW your Hawaii taxi driver example seems off the mark, can you show where you got your figures?

Only thing I could find is this: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...hdCurrentTab=1

The hawaii example was from a trip to Hawaii in 2002. Our tour guide was talking about how he loved it there, and said that was the average salary for his job. I remember being amazed that you could make so much doing so little. After checking out what a gallon of milk, and a house there cost I soon realized that his salary there is probably a similar earning as "back home"

As far as my outlook being on assumed future...maybe. I am only 1/3 of the way through my life (yes I will die exactly when I am 72 )I don't have kids yet, but feel that I have my fair share of bills/responsibilities/problems. Are there people here with more? Defiantly. Are there people here with less? Defiantly.

I know it is easy to stand on one side of the fence and talk about the other, and I too have been caught on the wrong side of the fence too many times. (I lost my drivers license 2 months after I received it. Boy was that fun)

My point from the beginning of this thread is to state that the economy right now IMO is not the problem for most of the people complaining about they can no longer survive. It is their decisions/choices that have put them in the predicament that they are in.

[MANN]

I run into a problem with hand outs. I was signing my child up for bible school one day that the churches food pantry happened to be opened. The people loading food they had begged for into the back of fairly new SUVs bothered me.

There is a need for support. There is a need to helping those less fortunate, especially those trying to better themselves.

The governments system is broken, and frankly so are some of the more local level charities.

One of the problems is is there is absolutely no shame left in some people.

You sir have earned yourself a useful post.

[gimp]

The hawaii example was from a trip to Hawaii in 2002. Our tour guide was talking about how he loved it there, and said that was the average salary for his job. I remember being amazed that you could make so much doing so little. After checking out what a gallon of milk, and a house there cost I soon realized that his salary there is probably a similar earning as "back home"

I didn't read through all the posts, but I'm probably going to move to Hawaii sometime next year. So as an example, I'll be doing the same exact job (engineering work) for the same company (I'm a federal employee), and it's almost a 20% salary increase. The base pay is a little higher do to the locality difference. I'm currently working out of Portsmouth NH. There is a cost of living adjustment that contributes to most of the increase.

You are right that it costs more down there though. It's not as much as you'd think. My girlfriend has lived in Hawaii all her life. Her expenses down there aren't much higher than mine are. A tourist will pay more for a gallon of milk than a local. But yes. Houses are way to expensive. It costs almost a million dollars for a house that would cost about 300k here.

[mag79]

[drg]

The hawaii example was from a trip to Hawaii in 2002. Our tour guide was talking about how he loved it there, and said that was the average salary for his job. I remember being amazed that you could make so much doing so little. After checking out what a gallon of milk, and a house there cost I soon realized that his salary there is probably a similar earning as "back home"

The problem with anecdotal evidence like that is ... well it doesn't prove anything. Anecdotal evidence is very often misleading.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/2002/oes_HI.htm

Tour guides in Hawaii earned a mean $11.37, $23,660 annually in 2002. That does not compare terribly favorably with mainland states, many of which have far lower cost of living. http://www.bls.gov/oes/2002/oes396021.htm

And I believe, adjusted for inflation, wages have been falling in the years since.