Handgun advice?

[Lohman446]

I had a Taurus until it accidentally discharged in my hand.

Now I don't even consider them.

Too bad, cause the judge is such a cool concept.

[Pneumagger]

AD... or ND?

Storytime?

[thecavemankevin]

What do you all think about the Ruger P95's? I picked one up at the gun show today and liked the feel of it and the price was right.

I was also looking at a .380 semi for a possible concealed weapon (don't recall the make unfortunately). It was a far less common name, but i had heard of it. It was a 7+1, what are your thoughts for a 380?

[Steelrat]

The price is ALWAYS right on the Rugers, but I find them to be inferior to a lot of the other pistols out there.

380 is okay, but I'd rather get a very small 9mm, like a Kahr arms, than a 380. But that's just me.

[93civiccpe]

Hey Kevin,
I wish I had seen this sooner. The Ruger will treat you fine.. they are usually at a good price but with guns you usually get what you pay for. It will serve your purposes fine for protecting yourself, but it isn't something you want to use for shooting competitions. In all honesty, for home protection you are going to have a hard time finding anything better than a shotgun. That way you know the shot won't go through walls and hit a loved one in another room.. etc. Plus, a shotgun shot spreads out when it leaves the barrel which is important. It gives you a larger radius of hit, which can help when your adrenaline is flowing and your heartbeat is up... it helps with the "fudge factor". Most people don't realize how hard it is to hit a moving target with a pistol, whereas it is a little easier with a shotgun. You have to be much more accurate with the pistol.

As for concealed carry, I could go on all day. The rule of thumb is to get something that you feel confident with. It has to be a gun that fits your hand okay, and that the sites are good for you to aim with. By this, I know some people love a 3-dot whereas others like the bar-dot.. etc. Kel-tec makes the p-3at (380) which is so tiny you could put it in the smallest pocket, but I refuse to carry one. They just have a notch site which is hard to aim with and the gun is too small for me to confidently shoot. Your concealed carry gun has to be a gun you fire often and are extremely accurate with, because if you pull that gun in the right situation intending to do good, but accidentally have a bullet hit an innocent person, you will go to jail. It's why choosing to carry a firearm on you is the BIGGEST liability and each person has to justify whether it is right for them or not. Kel-tec is another value line that is hit or miss. They have a single-stack 9mm which is really small called the pf-9 (i think) which has a 3-dot site and I've heard some decent things about. In all honesty though, I've seen too many problems with kel-tec. Kahr arms (as mentioned below) is a MUCH better gun for the money, and is with the extra green it costs to buy one. They are extremely similar to a glock internally, but they don't have the annoying trigger safety.. one of the reasons I like the kahr firearms. I personally shoot a lot of Sig Sauer pistols and am partial to them, but they are a little pricier.

The .380 round will get the job done with the correct loads. (That can be said with most rounds). I prefer a 9mm or higher when defending my own life, but that's just my own personal opinion. I usually carry a .40, as it has a lot of stopping power without over-penetration but usually the guns that carry it are a little larger or have less magazine capacity.

I have a number of guns in different caliburs, different sites, and different manufacturers. I also live in the same area of Virginia as you do. PM me and I'll see if we can't find a time in my busy schedule where you can check out some of these pistols or even make a trip to a range. (The only pain about the ranges here is that they are extremely over-priced and you must use their ammo). None-the-less, if you want any help, please send me a PM. There is a retailer in town who has the best prices due to the fact of not having the overhead that most businesses have.

[Steelrat]

That way you know the shot won't go through walls and hit a loved one in another room.. etc. Plus, a shotgun shot spreads out when it leaves the barrel which is important. It gives you a larger radius of hit, which can help when your adrenaline is flowing and your heartbeat is up... it helps with the "fudge factor". Most people don't realize how hard it is to hit a moving target with a pistol, whereas it is a little easier with a shotgun. You have to be much more accurate with the pistol.

I was wondering when this would rear it's ugly head.

Let me be VERY clear. A shotgun is NOT an area-effect weapon. The shooter MUST know where every one of those pellets is going. You should not be intending to shoot the shotgun and NOT have all the pellets hit the target. The advantages of a shotgun over a handgun are firepower (for 00 buck, 9 .32 pellets vs. one 9mm or .40 bullet) and psychological intimidation. THATS IT. "Fudge factor" is NOT an advantage of a shotgun. In fact, you should not be using a shotgun with 00 buck beyond 15 yards, as the spread at that distance (with a modified choke) will exceed the size of an average human body. You have to be as accurate with a shotgun as with a pistol.

And don't think for a second that a wall will stop a buckshot pellet. Ask anyone who is in the military or law enforcement if a house's interior wall is considered cover or concealment.

[SithSteve]

I have shot a lot of different pistols (revolvers, and semi-autos) and when it came time to purchase, I went with a Beretta stainless 96 (.40 caliber). I am more than happy with the performace of this weapon. It has great balance and smooth operation... I've NEVER had a problem with it. My only criticism is that it tends to be too bulky for any type of conceal application.

Now, I know you said you didn't want a revolver, but one of my top five favorites is actually a revolver. I shot a S+W .44 mag snub-nose a few years ago and was amazed how nice it shot! For a heavy caliber, it was super-smooth with a very manageable recoil.

Like others have been saying... Try before you buy!!!

[93civiccpe]

I was wondering when this would rear it's ugly head.

Let me be VERY clear. A shotgun is NOT an area-effect weapon. The shooter MUST know where every one of those pellets is going. You should not be intending to shoot the shotgun and NOT have all the pellets hit the target. The advantages of a shotgun over a handgun are firepower (for 00 buck, 9 .32 pellets vs. one 9mm or .40 bullet) and psychological intimidation. THATS IT. "Fudge factor" is NOT an advantage of a shotgun. In fact, you should not be using a shotgun with 00 buck beyond 15 yards, as the spread at that distance (with a modified choke) will exceed the size of an average human body. You have to be as accurate with a shotgun as with a pistol.

And don't think for a second that a wall will stop a buckshot pellet. Ask anyone who is in the military or law enforcement if a house's interior wall is considered cover or concealment.

I think you have misunderstood me. The pattern is widely considered a reason for using a shotgun over a pistol for home protection, plus the fact that usually a layer or two of drywall will completely stop shotgun shot versus a pistol round. As for using a shotgun with shot past 15 yards (45 feet) I would agree with you, but I don't have a room in my house that is that size... 45 feet is a good distance. As for aiming a shotgun, in general, having the sights farther apart lends to being more accurate. Think of a short barreled pistol with the sights only a couple inches apart versus a 12" colt revolver with the sights further apart. I may be over-generalizing, but for me, a shotgun is a lot easier to aim quick and get on target. If you've ever taken a shotgun to a range, and shot the 7 or 10 yard target and see how the pellets consume a large area on a paper, versus only a small point with a pistol, that is my point. I am a competitive shooter and have been shooting for a long time. I have gone through a lot of training personally and for my job, and in almost every training class that has dealt with this they point out that the #1 recommended firearm for home protection is a shotgun. And not for just one reason, for many reasons. That being said, I sleep with my concealed carry weapon nearby which I hope to never use, but from my years of shooting I feel confident in my ability to protect my house with it. It is a choice that every one of us has to make. I would agree that you don't want to be blowing shots everywhere like crazy with a shotgun. You have to be able to aim it as well. Any time you choose to use a firearm to protect yourself you had better be sure you have plenty of practice and are 100% sure you can use it effectively in that situation. The right tool can cause more harm that good if you are not prepared to use it.

[punkncat]

What do you all think about the Ruger P95's? I picked one up at the gun show today and liked the feel of it and the price was right.

I had a P95DC for years as a carry weapon at work. I liked it a lot. Put a whole lot of rounds through it and never had one single problem. As you say, the price was right. It was a little wide, but still with the weight and everything, very easy to carry.

[Steelrat]

I think you have misunderstood me. The pattern is widely considered a reason for using a shotgun over a pistol for home protection, plus the fact that usually a layer or two of drywall will completely stop shotgun shot versus a pistol round. As for using a shotgun with shot past 15 yards (45 feet) I would agree with you, but I don't have a room in my house that is that size... 45 feet is a good distance. As for aiming a shotgun, in general, having the sights farther apart lends to being more accurate. Think of a short barreled pistol with the sights only a couple inches apart versus a 12" colt revolver with the sights further apart. I may be over-generalizing, but for me, a shotgun is a lot easier to aim quick and get on target. If you've ever taken a shotgun to a range, and shot the 7 or 10 yard target and see how the pellets consume a large area on a paper, versus only a small point with a pistol, that is my point. I am a competitive shooter and have been shooting for a long time. I have gone through a lot of training personally and for my job, and in almost every training class that has dealt with this they point out that the #1 recommended firearm for home protection is a shotgun. And not for just one reason, for many reasons. That being said, I sleep with my concealed carry weapon nearby which I hope to never use, but from my years of shooting I feel confident in my ability to protect my house with it. It is a choice that every one of us has to make. I would agree that you don't want to be blowing shots everywhere like crazy with a shotgun. You have to be able to aim it as well. Any time you choose to use a firearm to protect yourself you had better be sure you have plenty of practice and are 100% sure you can use it effectively in that situation. The right tool can cause more harm that good if you are not prepared to use it.

Well, you were pretty clear in the intent of your message. The pattern should never be a reason for using a shotgun for home defense. The advantage (for home defense) of the number of pellets is their ability to stop a target, not that it makes it easier to hit the target. That's the mentality for hunting, where the spread does help.

As for the pattern on the target, keep this in mind: To keep all the buck on the target, you must still aim for the center of mass, same as with a pistol. Given that fact, how is there any "fudge factor" (your words), or any need to be less accurate with a shotgun? You hit off center with the shotgun, and you have pellets going downrange towards god-knows-what.

And a 00 buck will penetrate A LOT more than one or two layers of drywall http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

I don't mean to sound overly-critical, but this is a common misconception, and one that can lead to very severe consequences.

[Lohman446]

I would actually place the Bersa 380 as one of those "great buy" handguns. Not exactly a Kel-Tec size (I own and would not recommend a Kel-Tec due to durability issues) but a nice gun.

[Eagle]

I gotta agree with Steelrat here; that said, it really depends on the shotgun. As former Navy who spent more than a few days on watch with a Mosberg 12ga (including one very humid Sept 11 roving a drydock basin underneath a few thousand tons of submarine). Different gauges and different guns are going to give differing penetration and spread patterns. For your typical 12ga shooting 00Buck you're going to get about 1" of spread for every 1' of travel. And so they taught us not to use the shotgun beyond 21' unless it was absolutely nessesary. And 12ga 00Buck will go through most home walls.

[ManInBlack]

I carry a Sig P230 in 380 every day and can't say enough about its build quality or carry convenience. Having a gun that is all day comfortable should be a big part in what you choose. It won't do you much good if you don't have it on you.

[Steelrat]

I gotta agree with Steelrat here; that said, it really depends on the shotgun. As former Navy who spent more than a few days on watch with a Mosberg 12ga (including one very humid Sept 11 roving a drydock basin underneath a few thousand tons of submarine). Different gauges and different guns are going to give differing penetration and spread patterns. For your typical 12ga shooting 00Buck you're going to get about 1" of spread for every 1' of travel. And so they taught us not to use the shotgun beyond 21' unless it was absolutely nessesary. And 12ga 00Buck will go through most home walls.

Yep. For home defense you need a modified choke to limit the spread, but it's never really going to be usable beyone 15 yards or so, unless you shoot slug.

All this talk of guns and such, and that should be the last resort. Here are some better ideas:

-Good exterior lighting
-No shrubs, trees, or cover near the house
-ensure exterior locks are used
-vary your routine to throw off those "scoping" out your house
-alarm system to defend the perimeter while you sleep, with obvious signage outside
-dog in the backyard

Do that, and they won't even TRY to break in. They'll just move onto greener pastures.

[Lohman446]

I carry a Sig P230 in 380 every day and can't say enough about its build quality or carry convenience. Having a gun that is all day comfortable should be a big part in what you choose. It won't do you much good if you don't have it on you.

And if they would make it in 9MM I would seriously consider replacing my G26 tomorrow.