Decrim is up again

[Steelrat]

I cant figure out a way to post the table, but heres the info off it.
--------------------------------------------
Relative Addictiveness of Common Drugs
(100=Most Addictive; 0=Least)
Drug, Rating
Nicotine, 99
Alcohol, 81
Heroin, 80
Cocaine (Nasal), 71
Caffeine, 70
Marijuana, 22

Conclusion:
(1) The most addictive drug, nicotine, is not only not scheduled, it can be purchased without a prescription by anyone over the age of 18.
(2) Cocaine is about as addictive as coffee or tea's caffeine.
(3) Alcohol is about as addictive as heroin.
------------------------------------------------

This table completely ignores the effects of the various substances. I don't think anyone could argue that an addiction to cigarettes is as bad as an addiciton to cocaine or heroin, though this table seems to argue just that.

Oh, and...

Commerce clause. Just for you Ricker.

[Steelrat]

I'm pretty sure cocaine is theoretically the most addictive drug.

Meth is far, far worse.

[Lohman446]

As long as noone brings up the "no negative health consequences argument".

There is no conceivable logical way something you smoke into your lungs (and hold) has no ill consequences.

[behemoth]

Actually, i kinda liked meth more....

[skife]

I'm pretty sure cocaine is theoretically the most addictive drug.

i know quite off people that have done coke, none addicted.

heroine, meth, and prescription painkilers are all alot more addictive.

[SCpoloRicker]

Commerce clause.

Valid point about cigarettes not being as dangerous as heroin, I guess, but still.

[ThePixelGuru]

Kosmo, ive never seen that be4....made me lol.


(IMO)too many companies stand to lose money if weed becomes legal including big pharm, they have too much influence to let that happen.....therefore officials will use every possible way to keep it illegal for as long as possible. Till then stay safe.


tobacco-addictive, creates dependence, kills you, legal
alcohol-addictive, creates dependence, kills you, possible to OD, legal
prescription drugs- widely abused, some highly addictive, little regulation to stop abuse, EASY TO OD(more common than all illegal drugs combined)....kills you
(when i say kills you I mean when someone becomes addicted to the drug and abuses in quantity)

marijuana-not addictive, not possible to OD, illegal, enforced as strictly as possible

why?

Don't forget it's quite possible to OD on nicotine - in fact, the guys picking the tobacco wear heavy gloves for just that reason (they pick the leaves when the oils rise to the surface). It can absorb straight through the skin and cause headaches, nausea, vomiting, and, in extreme cases, heart attacks. Pure nicotine is occasionally used as a poison because it's extremely easy to mistake for a natural heart attack in autopsies. You also don't need it to be taken orally or injected, enough of it spread on something like a doorknob can kill. I've personally become pretty sick from overdoing it with a hookah after not smoking for a while - not fun.

According to the DEA, though, the therapeutic dose to LD 50 for pot is something between 1:20,000 and 1:40,000 - you'd need to smoke 1500 pounds of weed in 15 minutes to OD on THC. That's 1 and 2/3 pounds every single second for 15 minutes straight. Hell, there was even a guy who ate 6 ounces of hash - I doubt he enjoyed himself, but there are no lasting effects.

Also consider that schedule 1 is reserved for drugs with no possible medicinal uses, and that scientists have successfully used THC to literally kill inoperable brain tumors while tons of patients use it to live far longer than any doctor ever told them they could.

This table completely ignores the effects of the various substances. I don't think anyone could argue that an addiction to cigarettes is as bad as an addiciton to cocaine or heroin, though this table seems to argue just that.

Oh, and...

Commerce clause. Just for you Ricker.

That's because the point of that chart is not to compare the effects of these drugs, it's to compare how addictive they are.



Of course, weed's illegal for a lot of reasons. Racism, cotton, logging and big pharma are a couple of them. It sure as hell isn't because it's more harmful or addictive than tobacco or alcohol, though. The difference between weed being illegal and prohibition is that we don't have a nearby period of legal weed to compare the current period of illegal weed to and see how ridiculous it is to lock people up for a "crime" where the only victims are due to the gangs the government essentially handed a huge cash crop to.

[Steelrat]

Of course, weed's illegal for a lot of reasons. Racism, cotton, logging and big pharma are a couple of them.

I know this thread is going straight towards lockville, but I gotta call you out on this. The pro-pot lobby loves to jump all over the "harmful" and "gateway drug" arguments, but roll out their own tired arguments (racism, big pharma, etc etc) again and again. You can't have it both ways. I'm sure that there is some substance to your arguments, but there is also substance to the arguments that it's harmful and is a gateway drug.

But, in actuality, no one is going to convince anyone to change their mind. Another pointless argument (not discussion) thread.

[Hilltop Customs]

weed is not a gateway drug, there is no such thing. There is gateway situations...where you are around drugs being used, so you are more likely to be offered and use those drugs, but does weed put you in those situations? NO, you are forced into those situations by 2 things, your choices, and the illegality of weed. I bet your saying "what" to the last one, but think about it, weed is illegal, you are forced to buy from a dealer, many dealers will sell anything, so you are forced into a situation with other drugs by the illegality of weed. If you could go to a cigarette shop and pick up weed, where are you going to be exposed to other illegal drugs?

A drug cannot make you use other drugs...if you chose to believe that then cigarettes should be illegal because most drug users smoke cigs. People commonly use that argument against pot, so of course pro-pot people will refute it.

Also if weed was a gateway drug, why wouldnt the 1/3 of HS students who have smoked weed also use coke and the "harder" drugs? The overused gateway drug argument is BS, it is that simple.


If you want to have a discussion, lets ignore all the argumentative history and start it as simple as possible.....Why should pot be illegal? I say it should be legal simply because it is widely used even though it is illegal and is America's #1 cash crop among many other reasons.



ThePixelGuru your completely right about ODing on nicotine, I was thinking about smoked tobacco, but nicotine itself is fairly easy to OD on....makes me think of the movie "thank you for smoking" where they cover the guy in the nicotine patches....I dont even want to know what that would feel like. The scheduling of pot is just ignorant, and it should be reexamined...but there has to be some reason that it is staying where it is, ethical or not.

[Steelrat]

You aren't going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince you. Threads like this are just a waste of time.

[Hilltop Customs]

i'm not trying to convince you, i'm trying to have a discussion with you. The topic is interesting and I'm curious as to some people believe so strongly that pot should be illegal. Discussing topics lead to a gain of knowledge and more informed decisions by people on both sides of the discussion, not discussing a topic leads to nothing and ignorant opinions on both sides of the issue.

[SCpoloRicker]

Steelie, I've got three guesses who you're talking to.

edit: a-yup, usual suspects

[Steelrat]

i'm not trying to convince you, i'm trying to have a discussion with you. The topic is interesting and I'm curious as to some people believe so strongly that pot should be illegal. Discussing topics lead to a gain of knowledge and more informed decisions by people on both sides of the discussion, not discussing a topic leads to nothing and ignorant opinions on both sides of the issue.

The catch is that no matter what I say, you aren't going to change your mind. I'm not going to wheel out any revolutionary ideas, I'm just going to regurgitate the same anti-pot arguments and statistics/link/articles/research that have been used thousands of times before. In the same way, the arguments you guys are making are old, tired, and have been regurgitated a thousand times before. None of us is doing any revolutionary research on the topic, and none of us is going to be influenced by the same, tired old arguments. I know what you are going to say even before you say it, just like you know what I'll argue.

So, what's the point? Not being nasty, I just know better.

[Sumthinwicked]

my 2 cents (usually i dont type well so deal ) someone who is high on pot will usually make bad decisions like stealing to get more weed or robbing someone or one of the many other stupid things to do.. you want it legal tax the crap outta it and make money but your going to be in the decline of the structure of the nation I hope thats what your looking for . shall we have blood tests on the side of the road or piss tests to see how high someone is like the blow test for drinking >? every pothead i know is a moron and i have never met one who isnt just because it doesnt have an effect on you doesnt mean the rest of the people are not EFFECTED "sharks are like dogs they only bite you when you touch thier private parts " smoke another one bro (anyone get who that is???) now for medical use i semi agree but even that is abused .... i have had freinds who died because of stupidity when they were high now fix that issue with legalizing something that impeeds judgement thats stupid (insert beer fight here) besides that make it legal because of this thing is legal :P lol okie i have vented now discuss

[Hilltop Customs]

If you dont want to discuss it thats fine, I dont want to pressure you or anyone else. I just see discussion as the only way to bring out new ideas on a subject, no matter how repetitive it seems.

Heres an example of what I mean
One of my friends was having and argument with his g/f about the legality of weed, and somehow they touched on prescription drug abuse. After hearing this I came up with this idea "legalizing weed may reduce the number of people who abuse prescription drugs." Now thats an argument Ive never heard be4, and it came from discussion that was old and stale, but its still a new idea(at least to me).

anyhow for anyone thats wondering my reasoning behind the idea here it is:
Weed is illegal and it comes with the criminal stigma, many people are afraid of being labeled as criminals, so instead of using pot, they choose pharmaceuticals as their drug of choice since they are "legal". If you remove the criminality associated with pot, people will have one less influence toward the abuse of pharmaceuticals. (why is this good? pot has less side effect, is less addicting, and is less harmful to the user than the majority of pharmaceuticals)


Steelrat I understand completely where your coming from, this debate has been beaten to death, but that shouldnt stop either of us from considering every point and counter point on both sides. It is people who dismiss the other sides point of view before listening to their claims who make arguments(in general) repetitive.