Socialism One and All!

[CatoRockwell]

Just jumping in here, Public education is a state/local function, it is not a power delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

[cockerpunk]

And so I'm explained... And yet so far you and DRG have yet to explain any other solution.

I also have to find humor in the fact that you have to spew out all of these big fanciful words and explanations to try and make yourself look so intellectual... Hell he did it with SIMPLETON...

Tell me this ole wise one who knows, sees, and hears all....

Do you think that the passing of laws by the government to which the government is exempt from following is proper/constitutional?

Is that simple enough?

DM

that's because there isn't a solution, as i already said.

healthcare costs will go up. period. our only hope to lower them will be to spread the payments out over the whole nation, alla some kind of socialist law. this law, not that good IMO.

but even if you could do it right, that really won't cut out much cost.

the only way to lower healthcare costs - less healthcare. thats just the world we live in.

[DevilMan]

that's because there isn't a solution, as i already said.

healthcare costs will go up. period. our only hope to lower them will be to spread the payments out over the whole nation, alla some kind of socialist law. this law, not that good IMO.

but even if you could do it right, that really won't cut out much cost.

the only way to lower healthcare costs - less healthcare. thats just the world we live in.

So how do you figure that putting a price tag on services as not being a solution? Meaning if at the hospital entrance there is a "menu" MRI $500, XRay $200, Cast On Arm/Leg $100...

Meaning set a standard fee for services. This would keep the hospital from charging those with NO insurance $100 and those WITH insurance $500. That would cause the insurance companies to be able to lower their rates/prices/deductibles/etc. Now WILL they? That would be up to them. BUT, if there were rules put in place that prevented them from gouging everyone by setting a set limit on what they can charge for X dollar in coverage then it would level out. Why does 1 person with $50K coverage pay $500/month and someone else with $50K coverage pay $750? Why are companies allowed to run "credit checks" on you before they let you buy from them? So they can see what you make and see how much they can stick you for. It seems you are all for this One and All plan, and yet you say there is no solution? Is there a problem? Then YES there IS A SOLUTION!

Throwing your hands up and saying Gov Knows Best and they are the only solution is just insane.

The way to make paintball a safer sport is to have fewer players.

The way to make cars safer is to build less of them.

The way to make statistics/numbers go down is to have less of them.

Lovely plan! Really...

DM

[drg]

Do you think that the passing of laws by the government to which the government is exempt from following

What do you mean by this?

[chafnerjr]

@DM... they will never understand that government it supposed to protect our freedom. Not give us which bit's they find best for us. I can't even get drg to comment on the multiple time that I've brought the very simple text of the constitution into this.

[teufelhunden]

Why are companies allowed to run "credit checks" on you before they let you buy from them? So they can see what you make and see how much they can stick you for.

Have you ever looked at a credit report? "What you make" doesn't appear anywhere.

[DevilMan]

What do you mean by this?

Should government officials be exempt from having to follow the same laws that they come up with to force onto us? Or should they be allowed to keep their own little plan and let the rest of the populace deal with this bill?

[DevilMan]

Have you ever looked at a credit report? "What you make" doesn't appear anywhere.

bwahahahaa.... You are right... So I guess there is no real reason as to why they run it every time you apply for a loan, go and get insurance, apply for a job, or any other reason is there? I know it don't say what you make! But man... to explain things.. I swear.... Let me put it in baby steps....

I have a car.... It's one of the 3 primary colors. It's not Red or Green.

What color is it?

DM

[cockerpunk]

So how do you figure that putting a price tag on services as not being a solution? Meaning if at the hospital entrance there is a "menu" MRI $500, XRay $200, Cast On Arm/Leg $100...

Meaning set a standard fee for services. This would keep the hospital from charging those with NO insurance $100 and those WITH insurance $500. That would cause the insurance companies to be able to lower their rates/prices/deductibles/etc. Now WILL they? That would be up to them. BUT, if there were rules put in place that prevented them from gouging everyone by setting a set limit on what they can charge for X dollar in coverage then it would level out. Why does 1 person with $50K coverage pay $500/month and someone else with $50K coverage pay $750? Why are companies allowed to run "credit checks" on you before they let you buy from them? So they can see what you make and see how much they can stick you for. It seems you are all for this One and All plan, and yet you say there is no solution? Is there a problem? Then YES there IS A SOLUTION!

Throwing your hands up and saying Gov Knows Best and they are the only solution is just insane.

The way to make paintball a safer sport is to have fewer players.

The way to make cars safer is to build less of them.

The way to make statistics/numbers go down is to have less of them.

Lovely plan! Really...

DM

they have to charge those with insurgence more becuase they have to cover there legal responsibilities to treat anyone, even if they can't pay. taht time, equipment and staff doesn't work for free, so those that can pay, have to pay more to cover those that can't pay.

those who are healthy pay for the sick, those that have insurance pay for those without insurance.

thats how the health care system works, and unless you can change that, then you aren't gonna cut costs.



i think this thread is exposing your lack of understanding in pretty much ... how the world works.

[chafnerjr]

Just jumping in here, Public education is a state/local function, it is not a power delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

You are quite correct. Education is considered a state's or people's right. Most states have that spelled out in their respective state constitutions and the taxes for such are assessed and collected in their respective states by their own laws.

P.S. This is why you can still home school your children.

[DevilMan]

they have to charge those with insurgence more becuase they have to cover there legal responsibilities to treat anyone, even if they can't pay. taht time, equipment and staff doesn't work for free, so those that can pay, have to pay more to cover those that can't pay.

those who are healthy pay for the sick, those that have insurance pay for those without insurance.

thats how the health care system works, and unless you can change that, then you aren't gonna cut costs.



i think this thread is exposing your lack of understanding in pretty much ... how the world works.

And now I don't know how the world works.... Holy hell!!!!

And to think I used to think you did alright on your PB testing stuff that ya did...

Yep.. that's me... Mr. Don't Know How The World Works... Tis freakin hilarious! Comin from a youngin like you that KNOWS I'm sure how it all fits together.

You just can't grasp it can you? Insurance is YOUR choice. You could pick and choose what you wanted to do with it. In how much you want to carry and how much it will cost you.

You have yet to answer the questions I posed to you several posts back.

And yet, I don't know... hmmm.... alright... sure...

DM

[chafnerjr]

i think this thread is exposing your lack of understanding in pretty much ... how the world works.

Hey, we should all be a bit more friendly here regardless of our disagreements. After all, this is how democracy works. Let's be fair, NO ONE in this thread runs an insurance company, a hospital, or holds political office (that i know of). Not a one of us could even qualify as an expert in any one of these categories. My point is that no one here could solve this problem by themselves. There are far too many facets and if anyone thinks that know it all they're lying even to themselves. I suggest that we continue to educate each other with this in mind moving forward.

[DevilMan]

Here ya go mr know it all....

Insurance that you get costs XXXX dollars. You pay that over the years and never claim anything. Where does the money go?

It goes to pay for those that come into the hospital without insurance? WRONG!!!

You see the company is a private business. Oh wait... I don't know how it works.. that's right...

The insurance is NOT required to pay to the hospital for anyone that they don't have on a policy.

So then someone without comes in... And they get charged 1/5 the amount that the person with insurance gets charged for the same treatment. And then when the person WITH comes in, the hospital raises the price that they charge out to the rest of the insurance companies to make up for it? How exactly is this right or logical?

AGAIN, if there were set fees as to what each hospital charged for services, hell they can set them themselves. Do you not think it would reduce the costs? Have you ever heard of shopping? Or I guess since you know how the world works, you don't have to worry about money either... my bad.

DM

[drg]

Should government officials be exempt from having to follow the same laws that they come up with to force onto us? Or should they be allowed to keep their own little plan and let the rest of the populace deal with this bill?

Exactly what law are you talking about? Be specific.

So then someone without comes in... And they get charged 1/5 the amount that the person with insurance gets charged for the same treatment. And then when the person WITH comes in, the hospital raises the price that they charge out to the rest of the insurance companies to make up for it? How exactly is this right or logical?

Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but this is not how things work. People without insurance get charged WAY more than people with insurance. Insurance companies negotiate special rates with providers, since they are guaranteed payers with lots of leverage.

This is part of the issue with the current system, the people with least ability to pay get stuck with the largest bills, which they then default on, which raises costs for others. That's a part of the rationale behind universal coverage. Right *now* the system is unfair, the legislation works to correct that.

[chafnerjr]

People without insurance get charged WAY more than people with insurance. Insurance companies negotiate special rates with providers, since they are guaranteed payers with lots of leverage.

Sorry this is simply incorrect. I have health insurance through my place of employment (which offers 3 plans). Because health insurance is too much to cover my wife we pay cash for all of her medical needs. Trust me the cash rate in the three hospitals around me was significantly lower. Call me on it if you want as I will not share my medical records with you all (as much as I like you).