Socialism One and All!

[BigEvil]

I always chuckle at the charges of "statism" leveled against various people at various times. America didn't get to where it is because of a weak state, and it doesn't project power worldwide based on the individual unconnected efforts of Americans. A strong state is essential to the American reality. Decentralization is weakness ... this is why we created nations in the first place.

Statism, as it now often used is meant to refer to the 'soft despotism' being imposed by the gov't which is a direct result of the continued of intervention in personal, social and economic matters. NOT that we need to 'decentralize'.

[cockerpunk]

Statism, as it now often used is meant to refer to the 'soft despotism' being imposed by the gov't which is a direct result of the continued of intervention in personal, social and economic matters. NOT that we need to 'decentralize'.

who is intervening our personal, social and economic matters?

personal - republicans with gay marriage, with abortion, and with the patriot act

social - again, republicans, with gay marriage, abortion, re-writing American history, and theological laws based on the christian religion. also the torture issues and git-mo, changing what the American justice system fundamentally is about.

economic - again, the republicans with the the bank bailouts, with massive deficit spending in worthless wars.




the ONLY thing obama and the dems have done on any of those issues is the stimulus, and the healthcare bill. you can't blame the democrats for close to anything compared to bush and the neo-cons on any of those issues.

and i'll got tit for tat on obama spending vs bush spending (esp since the stimulus is actually smaller then the amount spent in iraq), at least obama spent the money on who he is getting it from - us. bush spent it on his oil buddies, and in a country which will NEVER pay a single cent of it back.

neither party will stop the spending, but at least we can choose where the money is being spent. in the USA, or on worthless foreign nations that wont pay a cent back. and we get to keep the personal and social freedom.

[going_home]

when rush limbah wins the poll for the leader of the republican party, your no longer a moderate party.

and lets face it, palin was the one who lost mccains election for him.

The problem with the Republican party is the fact that they are Democrat Lite, or as you put it "moderate".

The people dont want business as usual in Washington with the shell game thats been going on now for years.
Both parties are the same. The people see this. Garbage out (Republicans), garbage in (Democrats).

The people want accountability and a balanced budget and neither party cares what the people want.
Thus the Tea Party movement, fiscal conservatism is what the heartland wants, and the majority of citizens.

So "W" started the bailout fiasco and "O" brings it to new heights taking over private companies ie GM Chrysler multiple banks and now the latest is they want health care workers unionized.
You think hospitals have problems now wait till the unions own them.

Next is amnesty for all lawbreakers/illegal aliens because "O" knows he will lose the next election since he ignored the peoples wishes in the power grab so called health care bill.
He has lost the independent vote that got him elected and he knows it.

America is broken.
And if you think any of the politicians in either party are trying to fix it,
either you are a koolaid drinking skull full of mush youngster or you just
arent paying attention.

The train will run off the tracks before O's time in office is up.
Its by design the economy will crash and the money will be changed.

Good luck with all the "W" hatred and "O" love because they are brothers and are of one mind in what they want America to be.

And oh yeah, in before the lock

[cockerpunk]

The problem with the Republican party is the fact that they are Democrat Lite, or as you put it "moderate".

The people dont want business as usual in Washington with the shell game thats been going on now for years.
Both parties are the same. The people see this. Garbage out (Republicans), garbage in (Democrats).

The people want accountability and a balanced budget and neither party cares what the people want.
Thus the Tea Party movement, fiscal conservatism is what the heartland wants, and the majority of citizens.

So "W" started the bailout fiasco and "O" brings it to new heights taking over private companies ie GM Chrysler multiple banks and now the latest is they want health care workers unionized.
You think hospitals have problems now wait till the unions own them.

Next is amnesty for all lawbreakers/illegal aliens because "O" knows he will lose the next election since he ignored the peoples wishes in the power grab so called health care bill.
He has lost the independent vote that got him elected and he knows it.

America is broken.
And if you think any of the politicians in either party are trying to fix it,
either you are a koolaid drinking skull full of mush youngster or you just
arent paying attention.

The train will run off the tracks before O's time in office is up.
Its by design the economy will crash and the money will be changed.

Good luck with all the "W" hatred and "O" love because they are brothers and are of one mind in what they want America to be.

And oh yeah, in before the lock

case and point. the ultra right wing republicans being called democrat-lite. the political spectrum is so warped it doesn't even make sense.

like i said, i don't think any politician is out there to govern properly, but at least you can pick where they spend the money they take. i have very little love for obama, but at the same time he is hardly even close to socialist, he is actually a centrist for sure, expanding the afgan war, allowing oil drilling .... he is hardly even a liberal. the mis-information and slat out there is ridiculous.

i am disappointed with obama, but to blame him for this stuff, is simply absurd. W and the current crop of republicans are not the solution. they will take your freedom and your money and spend it on worthless ****. the tea party is absurd and immature.

the only half sane party out there is the democrats. i wish the libertarians would pull there heads out of there asses, becuase they are the ideology that i subscribe to.

[drg]

like i said, i don't think any politician is out there to govern properly,

I know of at least one senator, Bernie Sanders . The house progressive caucus is pretty good on the issues as well. These people get it.

[cockerpunk]

I know of at least one senator, Bernie Sanders . The house progressive caucus is pretty good on the issues as well. These people get it.

oddly enough, the title of the second video is straight from the likes of adam smith. he always said, a company should never get to large to fail.

[BigEvil]

case and point. the ultra right wing republicans being called democrat-lite. the political spectrum is so warped it doesn't even make sense.

like i said, i don't think any politician is out there to govern properly, but at least you can pick where they spend the money they take. i have very little love for obama, but at the same time he is hardly even close to socialist, he is actually a centrist for sure, expanding the afgan war, allowing oil drilling .... he is hardly even a liberal. the mis-information and slat out there is ridiculous.

i am disappointed with obama, but to blame him for this stuff, is simply absurd. W and the current crop of republicans are not the solution. they will take your freedom and your money and spend it on worthless ****. the tea party is absurd and immature.

the only half sane party out there is the democrats. i wish the libertarians would pull there heads out of there asses, becuase they are the ideology that i subscribe to.

Geezus kid - DEMOCRAT is a far from Libertarian as Anna Nicole Smith is from Mother Teresa.

Your concept of FAR RIGHT, Moderate, ect is WAY off base.

[Lohman446]

I find it amusing that we now blame all problems on a sitting president. Apparently the other two branches do nothing. Political gridlock (one party instantly disagreeing with the other over EVERY detail) is a relatively new game - for most of our governments existence both parties actually worked to some degree together.

Then again, I look back through this and I see someone flat out asking me "do you support it or not". I know why really. If I was of the same opinion they were chances are my comments and thoughts would have been valid, had I not been they would have been instantly invalidated.

Some of you, and a great deal of our politicians today. debate like children. We care not about the substance of someone's argument or thoughts but only about the final outcome. We weigh the value or validity of those thoughts and arguments only on the final outcome, and if it is in agreement with ours. Those who disagree are instantly attacked, those who agree instantly uplifted.

[cockerpunk]

Geezus kid - DEMOCRAT is a far from Libertarian as Anna Nicole Smith is from Mother Teresa.

Your concept of FAR RIGHT, Moderate, ect is WAY off base.

you would actually be surprised how liberal and libertarians are linked. libratarians are conservative on the fiscal side, and liberal on the social side. unlike the modern republican party which is liberal on the fiscal side, and conservative on the social side. the democrats would be libertarians if you can get them to spend less money.

so no, the democrats are not very far from the libertarians. they are closer to libertarianism then the republicans are right now.

[Frizzle Fry]

they are closer to libertarianism then the republicans are right now.

I can't help but disagree with that.

[cockerpunk]

I can't help but disagree with that.

k, so the big government, big spending, get us into foreign wars, spy on our people, take our personal freedoms away, mandate religion on us, and get lobbies rich Republicans are libertarian in what sense?

Powell agrees with me - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid..._comments.html

[Frizzle Fry]

k, so the big government, big spending, get us into foreign wars, spy on our people, take our personal freedoms away, mandate religion on us, and get lobbies rich Republicans are libertarian in what sense?

First off, as you just stated in your last post that Dems are big spenders.

Second, mandating religion? What planet are you on?

Third, I'm not saying either party is even close to libertarian. I'd say they're about equidistant. The difference between the far right spying on our people and the far left spying on our people is that the left tends to do it under the guise of social programs whereas the right announces it as a "defense plan". Personal freedoms are robbed almost evenly by both sides, one does it with a smile and the other with a scowl.

[cockerpunk]

First off, as you just stated in your last post that Dems are big spenders.

Second, mandating religion? What planet are you on?

Third, I'm not saying either party is even close to libertarian. I'd say they're about equidistant. The difference between the far right spying on our people and the far left spying on our people is that the left tends to do it under the guise of social programs whereas the right announces it as a "defense plan". Personal freedoms are robbed almost evenly by both sides, one does it with a smile and the other with a scowl.

they are both big spenders. they just have different hobbies, one is our country, the other is foreign counties.

republicans are constantly mandating and encouraging evangelical faith for all of us. first it was intelligent design, now its "teach the controversy of evolution." (implying there even is one - lol) they are actually rewriting the test books of our public schools to remove tomas jefferson in order to portray our founding fathers as christian (they weren't). constantly trying to push that the USA is a christian nation - again, we are not, we even signed a treaty stating this fact. they call judges who support and rule in favor of the establishment clause of the 1st amendment as "activists" esp in regards to the ten commandments.


personal freedoms are not being stolen by the democrats in almost any cases. do they want to tell you who you can live and love? do they want to tell you what you can do behind closed doors with consenting adults? do they want to make medical decisions for every women in the country? do they want to have your banker spy on you and your money (they already passed that one in the patriot act)? do they allow the government to take your medical and financial records at will (again, already passed)?

no, the democrats want to spread the bill of the nations health care over the entire nation, probably becuase the entire nation uses the healthcare system, some just don't pay for it. which is actually anti-handouts, and anti-entitlement. don't tell fox news that though.

woop-dee-doo

like i said, the only half sane party out there - the democrats.

[Frizzle Fry]

they are both big spenders. they just have different hobbies, one is our country, the other is foreign counties.

republicans are constantly mandating and encouraging evangelical faith for all of us. first it was intelligent design, now its "teach the controversy of evolution." (implying there even is one - lol) they are actually rewriting the test books of our public schools to remove tomas jefferson in order to portray our founding fathers as christian (they weren't). constantly trying to push that the USA is a christian nation - again, we are not, we even signed a treaty stating this fact. they call judges who support and rule in favor of the establishment clause of the 1st amendment as "activists" esp in regards to the ten commandments.


personal freedoms are not being stolen by the democrats in almost any cases. do they want to tell you who you can live and love? do they want to tell you what you can do behind closed doors with consenting adults? do they want to make medical decisions for every women in the country? do they want to have your banker spy on you and your money (they already passed that one in the patriot act)? do they allow the government to take your medical and financial records at will (again, already passed)?

no, the democrats want to spread the bill of the nations health care over the entire nation, probably becuase the entire nation uses the healthcare system, some just don't pay for it. which is actually anti-handouts, and anti-entitlement. don't tell fox news that though.

woop-dee-doo

like i said, the only half sane party out there - the democrats.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Lohman446]

See CP does it to. He can explain to you all the negatives of one party, gloss over the "they just want personal freedoms" of the other and then explain only one party has any sanity.

This "line drawn in the sand" of our nations politics is not positive