*Coming Soon* Immigration Reform

[DevilMan]

michigan has a huge need for unions right now.

there are so many factory that are taking advantage of nobody having jobs and paying minimum wage. places starting out at $7.40 an hour. you can't live decent on that in michigan.

there are a ton of places around here that only employ temp workers. we need something to change in this state.

You could if the rest of the crap came down to reasonable levels.

Good pay is all relative my friend. A person makes more, they get to pay more... it keeps going up and up until it's out of reach. Then it comes crashing down. Enough people stop paying because they can't afford it, then it comes back down. It sucks. But it has to happen, because on average places get greedy.

Paying minimum and having a job is better than having no job at all.

Not saying its the best of things at all, but at least its something. Having a union around isn't going to help much because when the crap hits the fan, the whole biz will shut down and everyone will be back out of work anyway. So what good would it bring?

DM

[drg]

Paying minimum and having a job is better than having no job at all.

Depends what your previous job was.

Not saying its the best of things at all, but at least its something. Having a union around isn't going to help much because when the crap hits the fan, the whole biz will shut down and everyone will be back out of work anyway. So what good would it bring?

Contractual protection during the time the business IS operating, and contractually mandated benefits such as severance, which could apply, depending on how the plan is shut down. Some plant closure legislation such as the WARN Act have more force when backed by a union contract as well. Very often local laws apply.

[DevilMan]

Just to keep this all under one thread...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36735281/ns/politics

PHOENIX - President Barack Obama on Thursday criticized a pending Arizona law that would make it a state crime to be in the United States illegally and require anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant to produce identification.

What am I missing here?

How is it NOT already a CRIME to do something ILLEGALLY????

It looks like the feds are going to run the states... no matter what the state and it's populace want.

hmmmm...

DM

[bornl33t]

I'm all for amnesty and think conservatives should just pull out of politics. Look, America is going to hell in a hand basket. We almost do not function the way our founding fathers intended and all the resistance by conservatives is only painfully dragging out the inevitable. Let America die will you so we can start over.

[cockerpunk]

There is a path to citizenship already in place: return to your country of citizenship, apply for an immigrant visa, apply for citizenship after lawfully residing in the USA.

Anything else is a blanket amnesty.

I really can't see how anyone can advocate legally immigrating people who ignore immigration law and don't see that as a problem.

ah the simplicity of a black or white world view ...

its us or them, capitalism or communism, pure or evil ....



the lack of maturity, education, and thought is very evident when statements like the above are made. its ok, the lack of those three things are being glorified by the right wing now, so your just following the trend. no, don't think about anything, just get pissed and say ridiculously things! yeah, that will solve all our problems!

i think my personal favorite was when palin said "the Constitution is the way to solve our problems" and "we want a commander in chief, not a constitutional scholar in the white house" in the same speech. does anyone with half a brain listen to this kind of talk and go ... seriously, WTF?

[SCpoloRicker]

>ah the simplicity of a black or white world view ...
>its us or them, capitalism or communism, pure or evil ....

>> its ok, the lack of those three things are being glorified by the right wing now, so your just following the trend.
>>palin said
>>half a brain

[MoeMag]

Some reform for ya....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100423/ts_alt_afp/usimmigrationarizonagovernor_20100423223606

[Frizzle Fry]

Some reform for ya....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100423...20100423223606

Arizona has done me proud twice this month.

[DevilMan]

ah the simplicity of a black or white world view ...

its us or them, capitalism or communism, pure or evil ....

the lack of maturity, education, and thought is very evident when statements like the above are made. its ok, the lack of those three things are being glorified by the right wing now, so your just following the trend. no, don't think about anything, just get pissed and say ridiculously things! yeah, that will solve all our problems!

i think my personal favorite was when palin said "the Constitution is the way to solve our problems" and "we want a commander in chief, not a constitutional scholar in the white house" in the same speech. does anyone with half a brain listen to this kind of talk and go ... seriously, WTF?

Proof Read is your friend...

Pure or Evil? How about GOOD or EVIL.

Statements like the above? And what do you know about immigration rules and laws? And why is that you think that there is a better way than to follow the laws? Why is it that you can't put up an actual FIX and instead can only call others "lack of maturity, education, and thought" So criticize someone whom you don't know instead of try and explain with logic anything of value.

Why don't you come in out of left field and realize that not everyone is "right wing" and blah blah like you seem to think/feel. There are more than a few of your "left wing" brethren that find these as well as many other actions very wrong. So tell me, if it's so damn good why isn't the entire left side all together? Huh??? Oh you don't freakin have a clue do ya! So go ahead and judge my intellect and my maturity....

Don't worry... I'll let you go on and think that I'm all the things you wish I were. I however can discuss matters of interest with thought and logic without attacking someone personally. Why don't you give it a try for once?

And sorry slick... but BLACK AND WHITE is pretty damn easy to follow! Ever notice what color road signs are? Ever notice what color ink is used on what color paper? hmmmm... yeah it is that freakin easy. Limp wrists like you are what makes it so damn difficult.

DM

[Destructo6]

Originally Posted by Destructo6
There is a path to citizenship already in place: return to your country of citizenship, apply for an immigrant visa, apply for citizenship after lawfully residing in the USA.

Anything else is a blanket amnesty.

I really can't see how anyone can advocate legally immigrating people who ignore immigration law and don't see that as a problem.



ah the simplicity of a black or white world view ...

its us or them, capitalism or communism, pure or evil ....



the lack of maturity, education, and thought is very evident when statements like the above are made. its ok, the lack of those three things are being glorified by the right wing now, so your just following the trend. no, don't think about anything, just get pissed and say ridiculously things! yeah, that will solve all our problems!

i think my personal favorite was when palin said "the Constitution is the way to solve our problems" and "we want a commander in chief, not a constitutional scholar in the white house" in the same speech. does anyone with half a brain listen to this kind of talk and go ... seriously, WTF?

Wow, pretty easy for you to throw down the, "uneducated redneck idiot," card isn't it?

So, what is ridiculous about stating the truth? There is a path to citizenship already in place and it goes as described.

How might I know something like this, you might ask. Well, simply, I've studied immigration law (have certifications, even) and deal with people who do it the right way every day. I also deal with the people who ignore the right way and jump the border fence because it is easy, or they have a criminal record, or some other consideration.

The vast majority of illegal aliens from Mexico have no interest in immigrating to the USA. Their goal is to work in the USA for a time, send money back to Mexico, and return to Mexico where they can live well on their remittances. If you've ever seen Interstate 19 in November, you would agree.

[DevilMan]

Wow, pretty easy for you to throw down the, "uneducated redneck idiot," card isn't it?

So, what is ridiculous about stating the truth? There is a path to citizenship already in place and it goes as described.

How might I know something like this, you might ask. Well, simply, I've studied immigration law (have certifications, even) and deal with people who do it the right way every day. I also deal with the people who ignore the right way and jump the border fence because it is easy, or they have a criminal record, or some other consideration.

The vast majority of illegal aliens from Mexico have no interest in immigrating to the USA. Their goal is to work in the USA for a time, send money back to Mexico, and return to Mexico where they can live well on their remittances. If you've ever seen Interstate 19 in November, you would agree.

Now you see... you don't know anything... just because you work and live in it, don't mean you know anything about it... Oh.. other than you are racist and hmmmm... yeah... I'm sure there are other things...

/sarcasm off

Good post..

DM

[DevilMan]

Hey DRG and CP...

Do either of you have a clue about Mexico's rules on Immigration? (Specifically the illegal type)

Please enlighten us on your profound knowledge and understanding of the world as it is.

DM

You know what... I'll go one better for ya... Why don't you tell all of us idiots ANY little bit of knowledge you have on ANY country's immigration and naturalization laws.

There... that gives you a selection to pick from don't it? And you know.. I don't want to pick on Mexico as I might be seen as being racist or profiling or a jingoist or (insert insult here).

So how about you share with the rest of us what you know about the subject. Keep in mind... the question isn't what you THINK nor what you THINK YOU KNOW. But what you actually KNOW as standing rules for any other country. Simple enough?

[cockerpunk]

i guess i think the young turks said it best.

the right is complaining that obama is gonna turn us into a utopia where anyone who disagrees get carted of and never seen again. and then a state literally passes a law where they can cart you off at a whim, and when obama says ".. huh ... probably not the fairest law"

and the right wing EXPLODES.

OMG ... OBAMA'S REGIME!!!!


the only regime here is the state of arazona. they now can literally arrest you and throw you in prison until you show them your birth certificate. you think obama is Orwellian, the state of arazona just made the most Orwellian law in the USA. being against the law is literally standing against authoritarianism and for freedom. in fact, law enforcement hates the law, becuase it distracts them from actually finding illegals who break the law, and prosecuting them.



the blatant hypocrisy of the right wing is astounding. just when you think they can't stoop any lower, boom, they hit you again. we love the constitution but hate it, we love freedom and are against authoritarianism, but love the laws that are authoritarian. the list goes on and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zA7Fdxnf0E&playnext_from=TL&videos=i6t2SqtB5ms

[teufelhunden]

CP, I don't really think anybody in Arizona expects that the police are ever going to start "carding" (for lack of a better term) everybody on the street and locking up suspected illegals. I expect this is an effort to force the hand of Washington into doing something about the stream of people literally flowing into this country without any regard for our laws or regulations.

I don't see how this could ever hold up - have states ever had (or granted themselves) authority to enforce federal law? But then again, like I said, I think this is meant to push the issue and get something going.

We need to seriously overhaul immigration in this country. It needs to be exceptionally harder to get in illegally, but we also need to make it easier to get here legally. That's the only way to ever truly cut illegal immigration. Past that, we need to have some better method of tracking those here on visas - my understanding is that a sizable portion of those here illegally are those who have overstayed student or work visas.

That said, if Arizonans really want to round up anybody who can't prove that they're supposed to be here, they're kinda dumb. Way to make a bad situation worse.

[cockerpunk]

CP, I don't really think anybody in Arizona expects that the police are ever going to start "carding" (for lack of a better term) everybody on the street and locking up suspected illegals. I expect this is an effort to force the hand of Washington into doing something about the stream of people literally flowing into this country without any regard for our laws or regulations.

I don't see how this could ever hold up - have states ever had (or granted themselves) authority to enforce federal law? But then again, like I said, I think this is meant to push the issue and get something going.

We need to seriously overhaul immigration in this country. It needs to be exceptionally harder to get in illegally, but we also need to make it easier to get here legally. That's the only way to ever truly cut illegal immigration. Past that, we need to have some better method of tracking those here on visas - my understanding is that a sizable portion of those here illegally are those who have overstayed student or work visas.

That said, if Arizonans really want to round up anybody who can't prove that they're supposed to be here, they're kinda dumb. Way to make a bad situation worse.

agreed!

but using that to defend literally a law straight from nazi germany (sorry, but its true. when have you ever seen a movie with the nazis in it that they didn't yell "show me your papers!"), all the while complaining that the guys complaining about the law are the nazis.

its silly.

there are solutions, there are sensible laws, and there are sensible ways to go about this. no one is dumb enough to think that immigration isn't a problem, and no one is taking sides with drug dealers and murders, sorry, if you think that, then your nuts.


i personally think the best way to curb illegal immigration is better auditing of the workforce. sure, i hate it when i got to work for the first day and have to bring my id, but if there are no jobs, then there is no reason to come to this country. in fact, that trend is easy to spot becuase illegal immigration dropped like a rock when the economy tanked. if you stop the reason they come here, then you stop the problem. heck, there was a HUGE bust in iowa 2 years ago where they deported several hundred people and put several people in jail for hiring illegals to work at a meat processing facility. THAT is the solution. stop them from hiring illegals with random and frequent audits, and the jobs will cease to be there, and without a job, there isn't much point for these people to be here.

of course, i do agree with you, better boarder control is a great move too.



anyway, its just silly what is going on out there. one of my personal favorites is "its not racist they aren't just using racial factors to bring these people in"

and that is a good thing how? i mean if it were racist, then at least you could point fingers, when its a mysterious list that is only reinforced by the policeman personal preference, literally ANYONE can be taken into custody for ANY reason.

this a good thing how?

i also like cenk's last point in that video. what if they decided to card every christian or suspected christian in the nation (most mexican citizens are after all catholic)? wonder how fast limbah would jump on that one?

like **** on Velcro.