*Coming Soon* Immigration Reform

[BigEvil]

the only regime here is the state of arazona. they now can literally arrest you and throw you in prison until you show them your birth certificate. being against the law is literally standing against authoritarianism and for freedom. in fact, law enforcement hates the law, becuase it distracts them from actually finding illegals who break the law, and prosecuting them.

That is a very uninformed and emotional response. Please better understand the AZ law as it is written before you make incorrect remarks. I mean, come on?
They still are rquired a reason to even stop you in the first place.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm

a lawful contactStipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.

No one will be stopping innocent people on the streets and asking them for their "Papers"
This goes no further than anything that you, I or any other American Citizen has to deal with on a daily basis. I don't know if you are old enough to drive, but any time you apply for a job, write a check, get a credit card, get a hotel room, or about a million other things - you are required to provide identification. This is nothing more than the state gov't going ahead to enforce FEDERAL LAWS that already exist. If you are not a legal US citizen, you are breaking the law. Plain and simple.

[cockerpunk]

That is a very uninformed and emotional response. Please better understand the AZ law as it is written before you make incorrect remarks. I mean, come on?
They still are rquired a reason to even stop you in the first place.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm

No one will be stopping innocent people on the streets and asking them for their "Papers"
This goes no further than anything that you, I or any other American Citizen has to deal with on a daily basis. I don't know if you are old enough to drive, but any time you apply for a job, write a check, get a credit card, get a hotel room, or about a million other things - you are required to provide identification. This is nothing more than the state gov't going ahead to enforce FEDERAL LAWS that already exist. If you are not a legal US citizen, you are breaking the law. Plain and simple.

i think you should read my second post.

[BigEvil]

i think you should read my second post.

I will... too busy writting my reply to your first one...

[Ando]

ROFL...one by one...people are getting suckered in to this topic.

[behemoth]

build a wall.

[Destructo6]

agreed!

but using that to defend literally a law straight from nazi germany (sorry, but its true. when have you ever seen a movie with the nazis in it that they didn't yell "show me your papers!"), all the while complaining that the guys complaining about the law are the nazis.

I love the nazi/fascist card, too.

Especially when someone posted the actual law that states reasonable suspiscion of alienage must be present before making a reasonable attempt to establish whether the subject is legally present or not.

Nothing like ignoring reality and substituting your own.

[DevilMan]

I love the nazi/fascist card, too.

Especially when someone posted the actual law that states reasonable suspiscion of alienage must be present before making a reasonable attempt to establish whether the subject is legally present or not.

Nothing like ignoring reality and substituting your own.

That and he totally ignores my question all together.... Since he don't care to prove to us his extensive knowledge I'll go ahead and toss this into the pot... Go ahead CP... Start your rant about how THIS IS THE US and NOT MEXICO... It's alright to be hypocrite... just remember that you are one when you start tossing out "I'm Right, You're Wrong"s.

Would you like to try and play your Nazi card again man? Looks like Mexico beat ya to it... You'll have to go there to get it back.

DM

[drg]

Hey DRG and CP...

Do either of you have a clue about Mexico's rules on Immigration? (Specifically the illegal type)

Please enlighten us on your profound knowledge and understanding of the world as it is.

DM

I understand that Mexico is not the United States, and that our view of civil rights is superior (IMO). This view is expressed in our legal history, which is not Mexico's, going back to our founding documents, which also are not Mexico's.

Most people learn that "but they did it too" isn't a valid justification for anything when they are little kids.

That is a very uninformed and emotional response. Please better understand the AZ law as it is written before you make incorrect remarks. I mean, come on?
They still are rquired a reason to even stop you in the first place.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....vernor.doc.htm

It doesn't matter what the law says, enforcing it requires racial profiling to accomplish anything that was not already accomplished. It creates a situation of de facto discrimination which, even if ultimately found legal, is not ultimately moral.

[BigEvil]

I understand that Mexico is not the United States, and that our view of civil rights is superior (IMO). This view is expressed in our legal history, which is not Mexico's, going back to our founding documents, which also are not Mexico's.

Most people learn that "but they did it too" isn't a valid justification for anything when they are little kids.



It doesn't matter what the law says, enforcing it requires racial profiling to accomplish anything that was not already accomplished. It creates a situation of de facto discrimination which, even if ultimately found legal, is not ultimately moral.

First, no it doesnt. Read the law. Secondly. even if it did there is nothing wrong with profiling. It is a common sense and proven method for law enforcement. You lefties have stigmatized into this dirty thing and have ties the hands of the police in many instances by doing so.There are more than just hispanic illegals here anyhow. "Profiling" just one race means that you miss out on catching any others, by your reasoning. There are plenty of Arab and Indian "illegals" here on expired school and work visas, cant catch them if there profiling for spanish.

[cockerpunk]

First, no it doesnt. Read the law. Secondly. even if it did there is nothing wrong with profiling. It is a common sense and proven method for law enforcement. You lefties have stigmatized into this dirty thing and have ties the hands of the police in many instances by doing so.There are more than just hispanic illegals here anyhow. "Profiling" just one race means that you miss out on catching any others, by your reasoning. There are plenty of Arab and Indian "illegals" here on expired school and work visas, cant catch them if there profiling for spanish.

its clear you didn't read my second post then.

if it isn't racial, that makes it WORSE. then it only matters the whim of the cop as to whether he brings you in or not. which is ultimately more dangerous the a racist law, an unclear law. i'd rather have a very specific but racist law then a very broad, ambiguous, and whimsical law.

its simply absurd that the republicans can defend this law. it makes every single attack on obama as a communist or socialist hypocritical. all the "if you don't buy healthcare you will go to jail" talk ridiculous. now you can just be put in jail in Arizona on the whim of a cop. and the republicans can straight faced defend this? literally absurd. its hard to take a party seriously when an 8th grader can see the hypocrisy.

[crack]

ok im not from the states, i don't know any of your laws and i don't have a right to comment on how the country should be run.

but one thing i always liked about America was it was a country built on immigration and anyone was welcome.

i mean what statue features the words Give me your tired your poor your huddled masses? where else in the world could you find that?

would it not be better to go after the people who exploit illegal immigrants and then help then help the immigrants become citizens to better there life's and strengthen the American work force?

[drg]

would it not be better to go after the people who exploit illegal immigrants and then help then help the immigrants become citizens to better there life's and strengthen the American work force?

This is the real solution, addressing illegal EMPLOYMENT. The AZ law has a little of this, and frankly should have centered on the employment issue.

[Destructo6]

This is the real solution, addressing illegal EMPLOYMENT. The AZ law has a little of this, and frankly should have centered on the employment issue.

AZ already has a law like this in the books. Part of what AZ was trying to address is that some AZ cities, Phoenix suburbs particularly, refuse to deal with illegal aliens when they are encountered by their PDs. What I mean is that illegal aliens get a free pass on relatively minor offenses because it is easier than dealing with the fallout.

That's probably why Phoenix is the kidnapping and home invasion capitol of the USA, by far: load houses are overlooked, mostly by design.

[DevilMan]

ummmm... really... tell me...

How many times are you ever anywhere with no form of ID present on you?

It's that simple. Answer that one CP. Tell me how many times you leave your house with no form of ID at all on you.

DM

[DevilMan]

And another one... Hey CP and DRG... Have either of you ever been to AZ? Vote in AZ? Live in/near AZ?

Any idea what it's like to live in a border town?

Don't worry.. I expect you both to overlook my questions.

DM