Very Interesting

[cphilip]

Originally posted by The Frymarker
In Maine a teacher of elementary grade students stated just after Maine troops have been deployed, Bush and all of his supporters even the Military are all rediculous for supporting this war. The teacher stated this in a different speech than I retorted.

Is this teacher a complete moron for saying this to small children who's parents just left? This person should be fired.

Well as right as he/she may have thought he/she was there is a time to just Shut the heck up isn't there!

[The Frymarker]

hehe it's okay to be an optimist Cphil, sometimes we all need a little optimism.

[shartley]

What the heck is that?!?!?!?!

[cphilip]

Well I realy hope and trust we will do the right thing. And I will be willing (and heck already am) giving to the effort to help those people after it's all over. We will not abandon them. We realy can't. The whole world will be watching. But even without that we wouldn't abandon them. We are always rooted in our morals in that we will show compassion, love and kindness to them and we will do ourselves proud. If they will let us we will be there for them. I know we will.

[The Frymarker]

Well some of us will.

I hope it is not like another Vietnam, not so much in deaths but when our troops come home, they derserve our respect and admiration.


With all of the backlash coming from antiwar supporters, this would be an utmost disconcerning act.

We were united as one when September 11th happened, we should still be united thereafter.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by The Frymarker
Well some of us will.

I hope it is not like another Vietnam, not so much in deaths but when our troops come home, they derserve our respect and admiration.


With all of the backlash coming from antiwar supporters, this would be an utmost disconcerning act.

We were united as one when September 11th happened, we should still be united thereafter.

Oh no! there was much learned from Vietnam. No objective no real allowance for our military to go and win. Also we learned well that in Korea and that still haunts us today. Since that time we have only gone in when we knew full and well what we were accomplishing. In both those earlier cases we tried partial appeasment and it failed. We will not repeat those mistakes and have since not. However...both of those issues we left much like we did Saddam in this instance so far. And that is why we will ultimately have to finsih this one. When we backed off after the gulf war on pushing into Bagdad we did it to appease and allow the UN some world power with assurances they would then take that and make it stick. However they failed us in that reguard. So no wonder we do not feel confident they will take care of it now. Thats part of the whole problem and its a good point to bring that up! The elder Bush now wishes he had not stopped. But I mean you had to try. And we will have to try again. At some point the world has to work as one to get these kinds of people out of power. It just seems its not working well right now. So its left to us.

[oldsoldier]

Heather, they posess them for offensive rerasons. They threaten thier neighbors with them, particularly Kuwait and Israel. they had a Muslim Summit meeting on Wednesday, in an attempt to convince Saddam to comply. well, their representative verbally attacked Kuwait, threatening them, calling them "monkeys, who illegally live in the mideast, US puppets"...stuff like that. The camera cut away for 15 minutes. When it came back, the summit was over...with, asd you guessed, Iraq saying they are a soveriegn nation and can do whatever the hell they want. It is this type of fanaticism that we try and prevent.
As to France, they have much economical ties. They get their oil from there, and sell alot of their technology to them. Also, we already have Muslim Iraquis in place to replace Saddams regime. We just need to remove him. Even Iran offered to have supervised elections, and Iraq rebuffed it. They have been given every opportunity to comply, for the past dozen years. They have failed. I watched Mr Powell last night on TV talk about this; there have been 17 resolutions passed to disarm Iraq since 91. He has complied with NONE of them. Why would he now? Hence his "smoke and mirror" speech to the UN. The world can't be fooled into thinking iraq is "complying" when, what they are doing, in actuality, is stalling.
As far as terrorists go; the world will never be free of them. IT is a vicious circle; terrorists are supported by a country that we supply aid to; we enforce sanctions and limit aid to this country. The country gets angry that we cut off aid to them, ironically, because they attacked America or its interests. In retaliation, they encourage more terrorist attacks. See the cycle?
Terrorism is an art of war used by countries that dont posess military might. It is their means of warfare. We cannot eliminate it. We dont even have a real clue how to fight it. Keep this in mind though; damn near every educated terrorist was educated in America. So, they come here, take advantage of us, then strike out at the "devil in the West". Doesnt that sound kinda hypocritical to you?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

So deadeye, we are going to kill everyone in the middle east, everyone in Europe, everyone, in Asia, everyone in Africa, and how while we are at everyone in the world. That is the only way violence will ever stop terrorism.

Saddam can't stop this war, Bush will find any reason to go to war. Why because he has too, he will not be elected if he doesn't. Bush has the power to stop the war, Saddam doesn't.

Not everyone in the Middle East of Africa is a terrorist. Not everyone in Germany was a Nazi! When you cut the head off of a snake, the body dies. We do need to hunt down and kill the leaders of these terrorist organizations. We need to kill their foot soldiers. Terrorists not only terrorize the enemy, they terrorize their own as well. If we were to wipe out the entire terrorist infastructure in the West Bank and offer the rest of the people who lived there a chance to rebuild their lands, a few might just take us up on it.

Saddam is the only one who can avoid war. How? Well he can start by not trying to lock his SAMs onto allied planes. He can stop challanging the no-fly zone. He can open his air space for inspection flights. He can open his country to a bigger and more autonomous inspection force. Maybe one equipped with helicoptors so that their suprise inspections would be truly that, a suprise.

For your thinly vailed North Korea comments. It is the responsibility of the North Korean government to run their country and take care of their people. We (the U.S.) are not obligated to take care of them. There is a reason it is called "aid"! We owe them nothing. If they want to ask for help, let them ask. For North Korea to attempt to blackmail us, let me quote a former president," Millions for defense, not a penny for tribute!" If North Korea wants a war, we can knock them back to the stone age. Oops, they are already there! Whose fault is it that the North Korean government spens 1/4 of their total budget on their military? Not ours! Why didn't they spend any of that money on agricultural endeavors, maybe then they would not have thousands of their citizens starving to death.

A lot of the world brings their ills on themselves. The U.S. is not bringer of terror, usually we are the bringer of help.

In Africa, whose fault was the massive starvation in Ethiopia and the Sudan, no ours. The evil people in power tried to use that starvation to concentrate their hold on power. Had Clinton not been such a chicken poop millionscould have been saved by our forces.

Yeah, another debate Collegeboy thread!

[Collegeboy]

Quote
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Yeah, another debate Collegeboy thread!
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Bring it on.

Ok let me break this down.

Shartley
To copy you, Hogwash. Religion might be a small factor to justify their actions. But there is something that pushes them to the table first.

No I am sorry you are wrong again. When you drop a bomb what will happen. That is right people die. What happens if one of those bombs miss their target. That is right innocents die. And what will happen when innocents die. That is right people get mad. And what will happen when people get mad, you get the picture, just follow the logic from there. Did I say the US was the backing of all the hunger no. I said a war will cause more, will cause hunger and such. Again follow the logic above it fits. I didn't say that is what he said. I simple used that to point out that anyone can be a terrorist, the only way you can solve, or lessen it somehow, by force, is to kill everyone on the face of this earth. By killing everyone of decimating (that 1/10th) the population of say country A, nothing will come of it but more trouble. Yes ignoring history is ignorant, you might need to go back and check it. I am not twisting peoples words, read my post twice if you must. An explosion to a fire is not adding fuel to it, it is taking away air which is one of the corners to the triangle.

CPhillip:

Yes dropping bombs have stop maniacs, but terrorism isn't one person, it is an idea a condition, and you can't solve an ideal or a condition by intensifying it. I didn't say are goal was to. But it happens in war. The US is making it seem like terrorism is one guy, one group, one country, and such. First thing after 911 you heard Bin Laden was terrorism, then you heard Al Queda, the you heard Middle east in the news and so forth. The US gov is narrowing the scope of the war on terrorism so that it can be successful. OF course we can bomb the daylights out of this group and its a victory, as long as you don't count the 1,000 new terrorist people, when you only killed 500 or so. When I say ideal I am talking about it is a mental state of the mind that causes them to do what they do. You mention that it is a shame to not do anything. But you have to realize that I am not advocating not doing anything. I am advocating not doing the wrong thing. That is the problem in American right now, many people believe that war means you are doing something, and anything to the contrary means you are not doing anything. That is wrong. If the war stops one terrorist, but creates 2 more, is it worth it then?

1st deadeye:

I didn't say they was, I said they was potential terrorist, as we all are.

MY above responses might seem jumbled together, sorry, but it is hard to respond to more then one person with it.

[nippinout]

Guys, you can't debate with Collegeboy, he fails to accept logic.

[Smoke]

[FactsOfLife]

Free Iraq Now.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Shartley
To copy you, Hogwash. Religion might be a small factor to justify their actions. But there is something that pushes them to the table first.

No I am sorry you are wrong again. When you drop a bomb what will happen. That is right people die. What happens if one of those bombs miss their target. That is right innocents die. And what will happen when innocents die. That is right people get mad. And what will happen when people get mad, you get the picture, just follow the logic from there. Did I say the US was the backing of all the hunger no. I said a war will cause more, will cause hunger and such. Again follow the logic above it fits. I didn't say that is what he said. I simple used that to point out that anyone can be a terrorist, the only way you can solve, or lessen it somehow, by force, is to kill everyone on the face of this earth. By killing everyone of decimating (that 1/10th) the population of say country A, nothing will come of it but more trouble. Yes ignoring history is ignorant, you might need to go back and check it. I am not twisting peoples words, read my post twice if you must. An explosion to a fire is not adding fuel to it, it is taking away air which is one of the corners to the triangle.

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I didn't say they was, I said they was potential terrorist, as we all are.

Again.. BS. I am not a potential terrorist, and I resent being labeled as one. I have been a soldier and a police officer, and I would NEVER become a terrorist.

Originally posted by nippinout
Guys, you can't debate with Collegeboy, he fails to accept logic.

No kidding! I feel like slapping myself for even getting into it with him after his other threads. I should have known better.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Quote
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Yeah, another debate Collegeboy thread!
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Bring it on.

Woot! Game On!!!!

Killing all terrorists does work. Look at the Roman empire, their version on the terrorist was the minor rebellions. When you declare total war, it works. They would beat an enemy into the ground and then some. The terror they created let their empire thrive for quite a long time. Look how they handled the Carthagians. THey destroyed everything, sowed the soil with salt, and sold the survivors off as slaves. Brutal-Yes. Effective-Very!

I am not advocating annihilation of all Middle Easterners, but I am advocating that we take the gloves off. We need to hit the terrorists and their supporters so hard, that they are afraid to get back up. Guess what, as long as Iraq funnels money to suicide bombers they are part of that infrastructure. One more reason to knock Saddam out of the box.

By the way you want to know who hates muslims the most? Their neighbors! A good frient of mine is a Lebanese-American. He is also Christian. He lived in Lebanon during the civil war. He has seen the first hand actions of extremists. Mention Islam around him and he goes into a very long diatribe about how at it's core it is fundamentally flawed. Did you know that Islam was founded not by a man of peace, but a warlord? Mohammed was a great general, not a preacher. He will also tell you how radical Mullahs in the name of Allah started a civil war that turned the Paris of the Middle East into hell! Lebanon is still recovering from that period. Also the hatreds there are fierce and just under the surface. The worst part is that the Lebanese lost their country all together. They are now ruled by a puppet regime installed by and backed by the Syrians. Talking with him is a great perspective on the foe we face. The only way to stop a radical is to kill them. Hunt down and kill all of the radicals. Not just the ones committing the violence, but also those inciting it!

Moderates can be reasoned with or bought off, radicals can not. Look at Turkey. On Monday, their economy collapsed. Their stock market and currency fell through the floor. Their military which has a history of coups is hinting that the civilian government had better get their heads out of their arses! Turkey will be on board soon. Why? They can not afford not to be on board. Turkey's government would not survive the military if they stand firm on staying out of it. Turkey needs the US's money, and the pragmatic military knows it. They will act as they have in the past if they perceive that the current government is leading the country down a path of ruin. Pride and moral stands are nice, but you can't eat them.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by nippinout
Guys, you can't debate with Collegeboy, he fails to accept logic.