IRAQ THREAD originaly "Seems at least one Brit agrees with me....er us."

[Collegeboy]

No I am not, but you sure seem like you are. You know that judging an event using Hindsight is bad. As for the rest, you know that the general public is generally ignorant (Again not meaning stupid, just not informed). So what you are arguing against is stupid. Oh I am not pissing on your experience. I am pissing on your lack of experience in that certain area we are talking about (What makes a terrorist, hatred towards the average Americans in foreign countries etc...)

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
No I am not, but you sure seem like you are. You know that judging an event using Hindsight is bad. As for the rest, you know that the general public is generally ignorant (Again not meaning stupid, just not informed). So what you are arguing against is stupid. Oh I am not pissing on your experience. I am pissing on your lack of experience in that certain area we are talking about (What makes a terrorist, hatred towards the average Americans in foreign countries etc...)

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley

[Trench]

I made a thread about it but it will get deleted I bet...

President ordered that the inspectors leave Iraq... HERE WE COME!

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
To judge a person or an event on what we know today is bad, for there is no way that person knew then what we know now.

Are there any more stupid things you want to argue?

you seem to have that part of the debate all wrapped up.

what utter gibberish.

[1stdeadeye]

?

Originally posted by Collegeboy
Alot of people call them Nazi Death Camps. I am surprised you haven't heard it called that. The general public isn't really informed enough to make a fair and correct assessment. Why do you think they call it playing to the ignorance of the populace? Why do you think Ike never voted tell after he was President, he didn't think the people should vote for they were and could never be fairly informed.

You are plaing a game of semantics! Of course I have heard the term Nazi Death Camp. That is not the generaly accepted term for them though. You are spouting Palestinian Propaganda by calling them "Concentration Camps"! You seem quite biased in this argument!


Before you start throwing out the word Palestine remember that not all Palestinians are represented by these terrorist groups. Palestinians themselves are not terrorist but certain groups in them are.

Actually they are. Their elected leaders did not seek to stop the violence, rather they encouraged the Intifada. Al Asqua Martyrs Brigade is an arm of Arafat's own Fatah party. So yes, they are represented by these terrorist organizations. Are there a great many people on both sides who crave peace? I am sure there are. But until both sides elect leadership that wants peace, it will not happen!

France is an industrialized country. They are a major power. And no the Eu shouldn't get a seat that would give countries like Germany two votes, that is almost like giving a vote to the Council of the Americas (I think that is its name)


Huh? In whose eyes? They are a nation in decline. Also, If you gave the EU the Veto and vote, you would take away them individual member states vote, duh? BTW who is a more major power: Germany, Japan, or France?

[1stdeadeye]

Ha Ha

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


machinery: make the cheese.

chemicals: make the cheese taste good.

automobiles: drive the cheese around.

metallurgy: to make the metal used to make cheese machines, airplanes and cars to drive the cheese around.

aircraft: to fly the cheese around.

electronics: cheese testing?

textiles: easy, cheesecloth.

food processing: eating cheese.

tourism: show everyone the cheese.

ROFLOL!

Come on College Boy this had to give even you a laugh!

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley

I don't know where you get that I skew information to suit my views, that is the far from the truth. I take in both sides information and make an educated guess as to what will happen, as to what has happened and so forth. I see the Israelis just as guilty as I see the Palestinians, no bias there. Your first hand experience would lend greatly if it wasn't skewed by your situation or other events. And judging from your responses I have more knowledge of the situation then you do. You can look at what we know today and what they knew then, but to judge the person because of it is stupid and is irresponsible research. I don't blame nothing, you some how like to keep saying that. But when you talk about basic feelings of the people on the ground, like I am, when you are talking about them and you say blame, you are saying they blame this and they blame that. Not I blame this and I blame that. Get it.

1de. I am not playing a semantics game. I showed you what the word concentration camp is. What ever meaning you put to it is your own fault, not mine. I used the word correctly. Can the PLO stop the violence? I don't think they can without allowing Israel to bomb settlements which will only allow more violence to erupt. You have to understand the situation over there before you render a judgment. I don't understand it completely, I never will, that is why I don't blame either side, but place blame on both sides.

You wouldn't even be worrying about France if they didn't stand up to the US and say no. Props to them for doing so.

[aaron_mag]

Re: Great article

Once again the wife stopped me from being bent over the computer debating with you guys all night. I had to watch Irish Folk Dancing (ARRRRGGHHHHH the horror. Wait a sec. Those women actually had nice legs so it wasn't so bad)

Now back to our fray....

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
This is a great article CPhil. Can you find the direct US Government reports that these facts came from? Not questioning the facts at all. I am completely on board France strictly being selfish in this matter. However I want to beat CollegeBoy and others from attacking your post stating that the Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank. The original data sources will disarm them before they can attack those facts!

Took the words right out of my mouth. So what. It wasn't like this was a big secret. Can it be that votes in our own legislative branches (and even the President) have something to do with special interest groups and lobbyists? Say it isn't so. The fact is, however, that this is the ultimate source of checks and balances. I'll bet, however, that all of these countries make much more money off of trade with the U.S. I'll bet that a compromised resolution could have been reached to make them agree to a follow up resolution agreeing to military force if certain steps were not met. I also bet that Saddam would have been forced into compliance when he these trading partners started putting the screws to him (which they would have). To quote a presidential candidate the most powerful country in the world (US) cannot afford to continue to have the weakest diplomacy in its history.

I am all for a peaceful solution. When the Palestinians were dealing with a dove PM in Israel, instead of taking advantage and negotiating for a land of their own, they start the Intifada. Things were looking pretty good for the Palestinians before this began. They were receiving a lot of international aid. They had just opened their own international airport. The Palestinian Authority was collecting taxes from it's constituents. They were on their way to real peace and then some knuckle head had to go and start the Intifada. I stated the thing about Ghandi because it was possible then. Now, I just don't know anymore.

I agree with you here. If Palestinians took the example of Ghandi and Mandela Israel would be in real trouble. The international community would start putting the screws on them fast! Hopefully something like this will catch on. It would really be the best thing for them.

Originally posted by FactsOfLife
I have no interest in repeating the mistakes of the past, and putting my country at further risk from a bunch of dirty nightshirt wearing savages who want to kill all of us.

Sounds very similar to the militant fundamentalist views expoused about us. I think you will agree that the U.S. as the world leader must be above this sort of thinking and prejudices.

[Jack_Dubious]

Here is a list I found of...
The Corporations That Supplied Iraq's Weapons Program

courtesy of The Memory Hole, one of my new favorite sites.


JDub

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I am not playing a semantics game. I showed you what the word concentration camp is. What ever meaning you put to it is your own fault, not mine. I used the word correctly. Can the PLO stop the violence? I don't think they can without allowing Israel to bomb settlements which will only allow more violence to erupt. You have to understand the situation over there before you render a judgment. I don't understand it completely, I never will, that is why I don't blame either side, but place blame on both sides.

Well. I stayed out for another few pages. But I can't let this go. I'll get to the semantics "argument" later. But do you realize you just said that you A) have to understand the situtation over there before makeing a judgement, B) State that you don't understand it, and then C) make a judgement? Did you follow that? And I still haven't seen you provide one shred of anything remotely approching relevent proof to any of your claims.

Ok now to semantics. If I say I want to light a ***got (slang for homosexual) on fire. Chances are you and most of the world will assume I mean a gay guy. But I mean a small chunk of wood. It's your fault you misunderstood, not mine. When I first read this I thought this was a pretty freakin dumb stance to take. Now I realize it's not even a stance. It's just freakin dumb.

EDITED: Improper spacing and to not be as rude.

[Collegeboy]

To the first I wasn't picking a side or making a judgment as to who is right and who is wrong. I am simple saying for know I place blame on both side equally until I can fully understand or get a better understanding of it.

To the second, a concentration camp is just that, a concentration camp. If you want to be specific about the holocaust ones you can use their names, you can say Nazi Death Camps, you can say Nazi Concentration Camps, you can say a number of things. But just saying concentration camp doesn't imply you mean the holocaust.

[ShooterJM]

Go up to people and ask what's the first thing people think of when they hear the term "concentration camp". Didja do that yet? I did. I asked 50 people, in bars, at work, etc. Guess what. ALL 50 SAID HOLOCAUST. And when I explained your argument, all 50 also thought it was quite humorous and ridiculas. So I repeat.

Originally posted by ShooterJM
When I first read this I thought this was a pretty freakin dumb stance to take. Now I realize it's not even a stance. It's just freakin dumb.

And I'll add: If you want to appear intelligent, try staying away from postions like that.

[FactsOfLife]

Re: Re: Great article

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Sounds very similar to the militant fundamentalist views expoused about us. I think you will agree that the U.S. as the world leader must be above this sort of thinking and prejudices.

I was until 9-11.

after that all bets are off when it comes to my country's security.

and I called terrorists a bunch of dirty night shirt wearing savages....

OH MY GAWD HOW UNFEELING OF ME.

guess what? I'd like all of them to die too.

see, I have no need to understand them. I have no need to know why they hate me and my country.

all I need know is they want to kill, rape, murder and destroy my country, my neighbors and my family.

all I need know is exactly where they are so that we may exterminate them.

like the roaches they are.

end of story.