From America...

[Rooster]

"Do you think the Longshoremen loading the docks were a part of the protest? The article quotes one of them saying that police were using excessive force. There were no distinctions made between who was actually causing violent crimes and who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If half a dozen Longshoremen were hit, then that should make it clear to you that it was shoot first, ask questions later. Accuracy by volume, as we say in paintball."

My dad knew someone who was shot at Kent State, and he drilled something into my head since I was old enough to know what college was. He said "If you are dumb enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, voluntarily, you deserve exactly what you get." If you don't want to be shot with a rubber bullet, then don't trespass. Get a protest permit, rent a street, and stay away from good citizen's businesses and places of work. They had no right to be where they were, and I would support the use of everything short of a minigun to disperse them.

Your rights end when they interfere with the right of someone else. You can protest till you are blue in the face, but don't you even dare slow my traffic, interfere with my place of business, or attempt to mess with my rights.

[1stdeadeye]

Do your homework Flamebo

Originally posted by Flamebo


In early attacks, it was believed that 2 SCUDS were fired, but there was evidence that they were another type of long-range missle that was not banned, and there has been no evidence that any other SCUDS have been fired.

WRONG! The terms of the first Gulf War surrender bans ANY MISSLE with a range of greater then 93 miles! Scud, Silkworm, Al Samoud...It doesn't matter! If they go further then 93 miles, then they are banned weapons! End of story! Do your homework before you post nonsense, it will make you seem smarter then you are!



As to your other post, Don't dish it out if you can't take it. If she started throwing things at the officers, while she was illegally protesting, then she got what she deserved. Had the police fired at her while she was protesting legally in the correct area with a permit, then I would be calling for the Police Officers head on a platter. Her rights end when they encroach on someone elses! She had no right to be where she was doing what she did. It's called the consequences of your actions!

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Rooster
"Do you think the Longshoremen loading the docks were a part of the protest? The article quotes one of them saying that police were using excessive force. There were no distinctions made between who was actually causing violent crimes and who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If half a dozen Longshoremen were hit, then that should make it clear to you that it was shoot first, ask questions later. Accuracy by volume, as we say in paintball."

My dad knew someone who was shot at Kent State, and he drilled something into my head since I was old enough to know what college was. He said "If you are dumb enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, voluntarily, you deserve exactly what you get." If you don't want to be shot with a rubber bullet, then don't trespass. Get a protest permit, rent a street, and stay away from good citizen's businesses and places of work. They had no right to be where they were, and I would support the use of everything short of a minigun to disperse them.

Your rights end when they interfere with the right of someone else. You can protest till you are blue in the face, but don't you even dare slow my traffic, interfere with my place of business, or attempt to mess with my rights.

well said.

[joeyjoe367]

Originally posted by dansim
you know what if you dont liek the way our country is, just get the hell out we really wont miss ya when yer gone

I'm with Danism on this one, to a certain extent. Lemme try to get across what he's saying:

If you don't like the fact that you're freedom to protest and your freedom of speach isn't 100% free, than I'll be Damned if you find another country that's anything like the US. Hell, start your own damn country. Let people in your country protest however the hell they want and let 'em say whatever the hell they want, whenever they want. Then see what kind of screwed up country you'll have.

...apparantly that's the kind of country these kind of protesters want.

Your freedoms are limited. If you don't like that fact, get the Friff-naffin' OUT.


I don't even have to say *anything* about that hippie bizzach. You throw *POOFY* at a cop and if you don't get a baton beating or a rubber bullet in your chest, I'll gladly administer them myself.

You have got to be a serious retard if you attack a police officer (At least here in the US)

as for the dock workers... If someone told you that there was going to be a nuclear weapons test where you planned to set up for a camping trip; THEN you saw what looked like a convoy of Military vehicles driving your way... wouldn't it be logical to pick your "poop" up and haul some ***?

Stupid *DOES* Hurt sometimes. Unfortunatly, not nearly enough.

[joeyjoe367]

Oh, I'd also like to add:

These protests cost MONEY. Tax-Payer's Money. The Protests in SF recently cost $450,000 ALONE. I can just imagine how much it's costing taxpayers nation-wide.

Police officers don't volunteer to sit around and have rocks and bolts thrown at them. They get paid; Just like anyone else.

Jails aint free either. We gotta feed them whenever they spend time in there.


I'd ask that they put huge fines on these idiots and make 'em pay for all of this, but they probably all live in vans down by the river and spend the the money they pan-handle on cannabis and hemp.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Flamebo
Do you think the Longshoremen loading the docks were a part of the protest? The article quotes one of them saying that police were using excessive force. There were no distinctions made between who was actually causing violent crimes and who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If half a dozen Longshoremen were hit, then that should make it clear to you that it was shoot first, ask questions later. Accuracy by volume, as we say in paintball.

[Vash02]

Well let my start off by saying "Wow". I just found this thread and i took the time to read the whole thing, post by post.

First off it blows my mind that ANYONE would say that our ancestors should have shut their mouth's and stayed under british control. Think how much different life would be if we were still under the british.

Secondly, lay off Kai a bit and listen to what he says. Don't be ignorant. I think what he is saying is that no one likes to see the world on the brink of war and if it can be avoided everyone should do their own part to stop it. If war is the final resort then we have to do what we have to do.

Now if Martin luther king jr. and rosa parks wouldnt have done anything during their time all of your African American friends would most likely not be your friends...tell me, you honestly dont care about that?

To finish my post im going to add a bit of personal feelings. I believe that something had to be done in iraq. The world kept giving saddam chances and each time he went and did something else. I think we are all kind of forgeting that this man once tried to have U.S. president George Bush Sr. assassinated. Now the one thing i am deeply saddned about in this war is that U.S. soldiers will die. Some of these men and women had young children, babies, wifes, mothers, aunts. All of those people will never be the same. The second thing that i hate is that innocent iraqi citizens have been and will continue to be killed in the attacks. Think of the number that perished in the recent attack on the civilian housing complexes a couple of days ago.

Im done. All i ask is that we can discuss this topic as well civilized american adults. Don't act like children, and bottom line support one another because we all have one thing in common and that is that we all wish for peace.

Good day to you all.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Vash02
Well let my start off by saying "Wow". I just found this thread and i took the time to read the whole thing, post by post.

That is very refreshing. Most just blot out their two cents!

First off it blows my mind that ANYONE would say that our ancestors should have shut their mouth's and stayed under british control. Think how much different life would be if we were still under the british.

Yeah, we would all talk funny and drive on the wrong side of the road!


Secondly, lay off Kai a bit and listen to what he says. Don't be ignorant. I think what he is saying is that no one likes to see the world on the brink of war and if it can be avoided everyone should do their own part to stop it. If war is the final resort then we have to do what we have to do.

I talked with Kai. Intelligent people can agree to disagree. I may not like what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it. What I will not defend is you breaking the law and impacting someone else's rights. The Oakland protest where they were trying to disrupt supply lines to our troops in Iraq. I would have gone Mango on them! Also remember the Ambulance scenario I posted earlier. If you break the law and inadvertantly cause someone to die, the protestors involved should be charged and tried. Every action has it's consequences. Look at those nuns in Colorado. They broke onto a nuclear missle base and took a sledgehammer to a silo. They were convicted and are looking at up to 30 years in jail. They tried to hide behind their right to protest with no avail. There are limits. Although I am a Catholic, I hope these nuns get a little bit of jail time to teach them a lesson. We have rights, but we also have limits!

Now if Martin luther king jr. and rosa parks wouldnt have done anything during their time all of your African American friends would most likely not be your friends...tell me, you honestly dont care about that?

This is different. They were trying to free themselves as did Ghandi with his protests. They were not trying to change foreign policy.

To finish my post im going to add a bit of personal feelings. I believe that something had to be done in iraq. The world kept giving saddam chances and each time he went and did something else. I think we are all kind of forgeting that this man once tried to have U.S. president George Bush Sr. assassinated. Now the one thing i am deeply saddned about in this war is that U.S. soldiers will die. Some of these men and women had young children, babies, wifes, mothers, aunts. All of those people will never be the same. The second thing that i hate is that innocent iraqi citizens have been and will continue to be killed in the attacks. Think of the number that perished in the recent attack on the civilian housing complexes a couple of days ago.

Think of the thousands who perished on 9/11. I doubt our foes anguish over civilian deaths the way we do. The Coalition is trying to avoid them, but if you must blame someone, blame Saddam. Also a few deaths at our hands is nothing compared to the countless number of lives Saddam has taken!

Im done. All i ask is that we can discuss this topic as well civilized american adults. Don't act like children, and bottom line support one another because we all have one thing in common and that is that we all wish for peace.

Good day to you all.


Here is the link to the nuns: Click here

[Vash02]

well i think that you 1stdeadeye are one of the only people in this thread that does listen to and respect others for their opinions. Im also glad that you are able to support your opinion. I hate people that say "Well im for the war cause...ughhhhhhhhh...i hate iraqi people!" at least have a reason behind it.

The only thing that i slightly disagree with you on is that we shouldnt care about iraqi civilians getting killed. Yes i do blame saddam but the innocent civilians had nothing to do with it...most of them hate their government. Now if they do support the iraqi government and aim to hurt or kill a U.S. soldier i say kill the bastards.

[1stdeadeye]

Wait up!

Originally posted by Vash02
well i think that you 1stdeadeye are one of the only people in this thread that does listen to and respect others for their opinions. Im also glad that you are able to support your opinion. I hate people that say "Well im for the war cause...ughhhhhhhhh...i hate iraqi people!" at least have a reason behind it.

Thank you!

The only thing that i slightly disagree with you on is that we shouldnt care about iraqi civilians getting killed. Yes i do blame saddam but the innocent civilians had nothing to do with it...most of them hate their government. Now if they do support the iraqi government and aim to hurt or kill a U.S. soldier i say kill the bastards.

I didn't say or mean that I don't care if the Iraqi civilians are killed. What I meant to imply is that we agonize over it and take great care to avoid it whenever possible. Our foes do not! I believe that any civilian death is regrettable, they may be impossible to avoid, but they are regrettable none the less. I also realize that in a war, sometimes civilians will get hurt. Nobady wants that, but it can and will happen in a war zone. Look at the bunker busters that were dropped on the restaurant where Saddam was suspected of meeting his sons. I am sure civilians died in that attack, but it was an attack we had to try. When we get Saddam, hopefully his forces will fold quickly and save thousands of lives. The desertions have already begun. Iraq's Ambassador to the UN, is admitting that "The game is over!" He is also distancing himself from Saddam. When the rats start jumping, the ship is going under!

[Vash02]

Haha thats good stuff. Man what's saddam gonna do if all his partners start bailing on him? might as well kill himself so we dont have to...am i right people?

[Kai]

Originally posted by Vash02
Haha thats good stuff. Man what's saddam gonna do if all his partners start bailing on him? might as well kill himself so we dont have to...am i right people?

It worked for Hitler.

[Xerces]

OH MY GOD! that police officer actually has the stones to defend himself against out of control protestors! RODNEY KING, RODNEY KING!


other than the whole traffic thing (DC Metro is awful nowadays) the reason i can't stand the protestors, is they really don't have a solid argument to stand on. I watch MTV occasionally now, so I get the O'Reilly standpoint, and the pop culture brainwash standpoint. ok, maybe comparing (a largely) kids music channel to a man who actually does his research isn't very fair. but i have yet to hear a good anti-war argument. if someone could present one i would be very appreciative(i mean this in an entirely serious manner, not trying to be facetious in any way).

i guess im trying to say, that while agreeing with thier rights and freedoms, i don't have much sympathy for them and thier 'cause'

__EDIT__
also, i find the ghandi argument is flawed in the way that what is 'just' can easily be a subjective thing, outside some basic common sense.

[71 LS6]

Thank you Army

Army, thanks for the story- it could teach many people in this country a lesson.

I have read a few posts that mention the only method for protesters to be heard is to mob, riot, trespass, block traffic, or break the law in large numbers. However, as has already been stated, this is not a right, because it involves breaking the law. These people feel that they need to break the law to be heard, and call those who oppose or defend themselves intolerant. If these people feel so badly that their opinion is so vital, and they are speaking for the good of the world, where were they last election? Why don't these protesters who want so desperately to be heard have a public office of some sort? Why didnt they join the armed forces or the police to protect these freedoms that they try to defend? Because it is easier to stay out of things, and when you really feel the need to defend freedom, to violate the others' rights to do it. There are plenty of LEGAL ways to be heard, make a difference, or defend freedoms in this wonderful country. Most of these include getting an education, holding some sort of public office, or joining an armed force, police force, ambulance, or firefighting. However, these people do not have the dedication to their fellow citizens to do this. They would rather live for themselves or their family, and burn a flag when they disagree with the policies of the government it stands for. Next time you want to protest, ask yourself how you let it get so far that your only resort is to break the law.

On a side note, a drunk tried to break into my house the other night. I find this quite disturbing, and hope that it never happens again. What really angered me though, was that the guy got frustrated when he was unable to get through my door, so he tore the flag off of my house, breaking it's support, and threw it on the ground. It is sickening that while thousands of young men his age are overseas defending his and my freedoms, he is stsaggering around at night trying to break into homes and breaking a flagpole. MY flagpole, for MY country, and HIS country. Thankfully, he was caught, and now faces several charges.

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS - THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SACRIFICE