Womd

[ERut]

Miscue, why dont you just say what you meant?

[Miscue]

Originally posted by ERut
Miscue, why dont you just say what you meant?

But I have! I just purposely didn't put up the big road signs because I know certain people would just graffiti them, but there is enough for the keen to figure out what direction I was going... and the road sign vandals - who I don't care about - will be lost by design.

[Collegeboy]

You said you meant as a way of saying that Iraq and other invasions are necessary to make sure another 911 does not happen.

I then showed you how Iraq has never and didn't pose a threat to the US. I then said that you are trivializing their deaths. I then said that I think that it was distastful and wrong and that you should receive a warning. I then said that I doubt that will ever happen.

[davidb]

Collegeboy, I seem to remember (correct me if I'm wrong) you stating that the war in Kosovo was justified because we were stopping/preventing a modern-day holocaust.

Would you then say that this statement constitutes a gross trivialization of the deaths of millions of Jews, Catholics, Gypsies, etc., or are the double standard accusations being slung in the wrong direction?

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by davidb
Collegeboy, I seem to remember (correct me if I'm wrong) you stating that the war in Kosovo was justified because we were stopping/preventing a modern-day holocaust.

Would you then say that this statement constitutes a gross trivialization of the deaths of millions of Jews, Catholics, Gypsies, etc., or are the double standard accusations being slung in the wrong direction?

I don't remember saying that, but if I did, no I do not think it is trivializing their deaths. Those people were being rounded up for they were Muslim, for nothing more then their religious beliefs. They were being killed in mass numbers and being dumped into mass graves. The perpetrators of these atrocities were trying to wipe out their entire race.

[davidb]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


A modern day holocaust in Kosovo deserved action.

Found it. Fact is, I agree with you the above (quoted) statement totally and completely. I agree that it is not trivializing anything. But the fact that you deem that you can use people's deaths as justification for war while Miscue cannot, and accuse him of double standards all the while, is more than a little ironic.

If he had said something like, "yeah we wanted to attack the bastards and then 9/11 happened and we finally had our justification", then, yeah, myself and everyone else here, Miscue included except that we're talking about him, would have been all over him. All he posted was a picture of the WTC attack. His only "mistake" was leaving it open to interpretation. Those of us who share his views, or are capable of thinking in the abstract, for the most part figured out what he was trying to say. Not that we attacked because we were pissed about 9/11, not that Saddam's henchmen were flying the plane. Just that there is a reason for a preemptive strike. A picture of, say, a North Korean ICBM would have carried basically the same meaning. But that picture might be a bit harder to get.

P.S. Not trying to put words in your mouth, Q. If I misinterpreted please lemme know.

[davidb]

"Those people were being rounded up for they were ?Kurds?, for nothing more then their ?ethnicity?. They were being killed in mass numbers and being dumped into mass graves. ?Saddam was? trying to wipe out their entire race."

It's not terribly difficult to spot a double standard or ten if you look hard enough.

What made those particular atrocities worthy of our attention and sacrifice, while the ones taking place in Iraq were nothing to get all huffy about (not your words)? Was it the fact that it was all getting so much coverage? Was it the proximity to France and Germany (NIMBY?)? I'm not trying to accuse you of being callous or uncaring or anything like that, I'm just curious what you believe the determining factor(s) is/are.

BTW I forget if you've mentioned this before, but do you go to University of Alabama? My mom used to teach chemistry there. I lived in Bama for eleven years of my childhood, got the t-shirts to prove it.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
No, not all or even most of the Palestinians want the Jews out of the Middle East. That is only propaganda spread by the western media and soaked up by people like you.

Follow my logic here okay! 1)The PLO charter called for the destruction of Israel and the killing of it's citizens. 2) Arafat is the founder and leader of the PLO. 3) The palestinians overwhelmingly elect Arafat their president/chairman.whatever.

ERGO-Most Palestinians support the destruction of Israel!

Yes Miscue did trivialize their deaths. If me saying that I will include the deaths of those on 911 with all other deaths in the world in my post is trivializing their deaths, then clearly someone using their deaths to justify something that has nothing to do with them and had no change of even threatening is trivializing their deaths. I guess since his name is not collegeboy, and he is a mod, he follows by a different set of rules.

No he did not. He pointed out the price of complacency. If 9/11 teaches us anything, it must be eternal vigilence!

Moral high ground holds a lot in the international arena. Who ever holds the moral high ground gets the majority of the international arena to push the other into submission. Hence why Palestine holds the moral agenda right now and the majority of the world supports them and their plight.

WTF?????

No the Palestinians do not hold the moral highground now. Most of the world does not support them. You must be high!

Sucide bombers & Targeting civilians dos not win you the moral highground. The big 3 (US, Russia, and the EU) have condemned the Palestinians and their attacks far more often then they have the Israeli responses and the big 3 are all that matters.

[Collegeboy]

The problem with the Kurdish statement is that happened in the 1980's when the US was supporting Saddam and his actions, we turned a blind eye to those actions, even though our own soldiers were fighting for him in that war. So to use those deaths then to justify an invasion now is rather wrong, in Bosnia we went in to stop the genocide, we did not try and go in for a genocide that happened 20 years before.

I really could care less what Miscue meant by his post. For I feel we should all be able to say what ever our views are without having to worry about being banned if they offend someone too much. The only reason I am bringing this up is to put out the double standard of this board. I got a warning for simply including all other who died into my memorial post on 911. Some other guy did the same thing and nothing happened to him. Miscue post a post that uses there deaths to justify something that can not be justified, and nothing happens.

1DE. Hate to say it but the Palestinians do hold the moral high ground at this point. The world sees Israel in the wrong for their, despite UN resolutions against them, keeping the occupied territory. They see that action causing the bombings and the acts by Israel causing the bombings. Until Israel moves out they will never garner the moral high ground.

No, most Palestinians are not for the destruction of Israel. That is just faulty logic.

[aaron_mag]

Oh my god!!! You spend one day off the net and there are pages and pages of posts.

First off I don't have a clue or an opinion on the DU weapons issues. Army works with them everyday so I'm guessing he knows what he is talking about. If we ever debate the value of nursing homes/assisted living/retirement centers I expect you guys to stand up and pay attention to my worldly knowledge!!!!

Now I disagree on the Israeli issue. We prop Israel up with tons of money and weapons. If they truly don't need the money why don't we stop giving it to them. We do this in other areas where we consider the U.S. to have a vested interest (South Korea, Taiwan, etc.) so I'm not saying this is fundamentally bad. I am saying, however, that Israel doesn't deserve any occupied territory UNLESS the U.S. says that they are entitled to it. So I'm actually not even arguing that they should even give it up or not. What I'm saying is that the argument that this it is the spoils of war does NOT apply to them because they are NOT an independent nation that stands on their own two feet.

Now my opinion is that they will never see peace in the region unless they give most of that territory back. But this was not what we were debating. If they truly are capable of defending their own borders without U.S. money then lets stop giving them tons of money! They are not a third world country in need of economic development are they?

If, however, they feel they need the aid for the continuation of the Israeli state than shut up and talking about what you "deserve" because of what the U.S. has done in the past. The same rules do NOT apply.

[1stdeadeye]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Collegeboy
1DE. Hate to say it but the Palestinians do hold the moral high ground at this point. The world sees Israel in the wrong for their, despite UN resolutions against them, keeping the occupied territory. They see that action causing the bombings and the acts by Israel causing the bombings. Until Israel moves out they will never garner the moral high ground.

THERE IS NO MORAL HIGHGROUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST!!!!! Don't you understand that. It is two kids standing in the playground slugging one another. It will not stop until one walks away. Neither side is doing that! Suicide terror attacks do not allow the Palestinians to hold the high ground. Collateral Damage does not allow the Israelis to have it!

No, most Palestinians are not for the destruction of Israel. That is just faulty logic.

Where are you "FACTS" coming from?

Al Asqua Martyrs Brigade is a part of the ruling Fatah Party. They attack Israelis without reprisal from their leader (Arafat). They are thus at the least covertly supported by Arafat and his party. Arafat and his party were elected by the paleastians. So with their voices and actions, the Palestinian Authority supports terrorism. Where do you get your proof that the palestinians don't support terror attacks. Their actions speak louder then their words!!1

[-Carnifex-]

Maybe they elected Arafat because they didn't like the other guys. You know, sort of like how Bush was elected.

[Collegeboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

Originally posted by Collegeboy
1DE. Hate to say it but the Palestinians do hold the moral high ground at this point. The world sees Israel in the wrong for their, despite UN resolutions against them, keeping the occupied territory. They see that action causing the bombings and the acts by Israel causing the bombings. Until Israel moves out they will never garner the moral high ground.

THERE IS NO MORAL HIGHGROUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST!!!!! Don't you understand that. It is two kids standing in the playground slugging one another. It will not stop until one walks away. Neither side is doing that! Suicide terror attacks do not allow the Palestinians to hold the high ground. Collateral Damage does not allow the Israelis to have it!

No, most Palestinians are not for the destruction of Israel. That is just faulty logic.

Where are you "FACTS" coming from?

Al Asqua Martyrs Brigade is a part of the ruling Fatah Party. They attack Israelis without reprisal from their leader (Arafat). They are thus at the least covertly supported by Arafat and his party. Arafat and his party were elected by the paleastians. So with their voices and actions, the Palestinian Authority supports terrorism. Where do you get your proof that the palestinians don't support terror attacks. Their actions speak louder then their words!!1

In the International Arena there is moral high ground, and right now it resides with the Palestinians. I love how you use terrorist bombings for the Palestinians, and Collateral damage for the Israelis.

I said you 'logic' is faulty. That doesn't equate that the majority of Palestinians wanting Israel wiped off the planet.

Using your logic you would be inclined to think that the vast majority of Israelis want every Palestinian dead, for that is what Sharon wants (as his past actions dictate)

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


In the International Arena there is moral high ground, and right now it resides with the Palestinians. I love how you use terrorist bombings for the Palestinians, and Collateral damage for the Israelis.

No they don't! Both sides are being routinely condemned for their actions. As for my verbiage, look it up. They are appropriate terms!

Terrorist target civilians!
Collateral Damage is a by-product of Israeli strikes against said terrorists!


I said you 'logic' is faulty. That doesn't equate that the majority of Palestinians wanting Israel wiped off the planet.

Using your logic you would be inclined to think that the vast majority of Israelis want every Palestinian dead, for that is what Sharon wants (as his past actions dictate)

This coming from the guy who said the Israelis were told by the bible to kill all palestinians!

Oh and for my logic being faulty, prove me wrong.My argument is more substantioal then your "You are wrong because I said so!"

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by -Carnifex-
Maybe they elected Arafat because they didn't like the other guys. You know, sort of like how Bush was elected.

Uhm no!

Maybe it was an election with only one choice!