Raising the draft age.

[p8ntball1016]

Originally posted by Lakeview Bulldog
/rant
I dont see anyhting wrong with everyone coming out of highschool and serving 1-2 years in either the millitary, government, or in an organization like the Red Cross or Peace Corps. What is wrong with giving back to the country that has given so much to you? teenagers today are so ungrateful. Most of them are overweight and lazy. I am 18 years old and my generation is the product of having it too good for too long. Most of the people in my highschool need a wakeup call. They are more concerned with what the ***** Eye for the Straight guy people are doing than national and world events. I think a year in the Marines would be the best thing that ever happened to a lot of people I know. It just makes me so angry to see all these people that think its okay to burn the flag, who are so naive to think that violence should never be an option, people who would rather have a barcode tattooed into there foreheads so they can get free government money than work for a living. And what is wrong with America doing things unilaterialy? Since when do we need the World's approval to do anything. That kind of stuff just makes me sick. If there are people out there who agree with me then turn your radios on AM around 7:00 EST and try and find a program called Savage nation with Dr. Mike Savage. or get one of his two books called Savage Nation or The Enemy within. They will change your life. /rant

By the way, Im suprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

No. Forcing millions of people into military service is a form of indentured servitude. Not to mention the economic reprocussions. Plus, your taxes will be higher as a result of increased demand for training and supplies. You can join the marines, but don't tell me I am fat and lazy because I don't go running to the recruiting center first thing in the morning.

[Lakeview Bulldog]

A Program like I just described would be very expensive, at first. But just think. How much do we spend on welfare? Unemployment? All of these social programs cost billions and billions. If you talk to people who have served in the military, even if they hated it, will tell you that they are better people for it. Imagine a whole generation that is disciplined, motivated, and in excellent physical condtion. Instead of lazy and ungrateful, now Im not saying that people who don't join the military are lazy or ungrateful, but that is definatly a problem with today's youth. Now say you dont want to join the military, this is for all you bleeding heart liberals out there, imagine America's youths being sent to ailing third world countries being hired out to help all the needy. Still becoming disciplined, motivated, and compassionate. A generation of doctors and civil egineers who care more about helping than money and power. I know what I am proposing will never happen before Im too old to be a part of it, but I believe America is being destroyed by enemies who seek to make Americans stupid, unmotivated, and lazy. People who would rater make their money with frivolous lawsuits than going out and earning it.

[i like tictacs]

You're being unbelievably close minded and naive about your views.

[Lakeview Bulldog]

Im not taking anything personally here, so be honest. But just how am I being naive about my views. I don't see anything wrong with being close-minded. Whatever is best for America and her citiznes. I am also closed-minded about about a lot of other things. I don't believe I have to accept other people for the sole sake that they are different. I make those jusdgements on a case by case basis. I am by no stretch of the imagination racists either. But what exactly am I being naive about? I realized that what I posted was extremly idealistic, borderline propaganda even, but I do not understand naive. Please explain, you're not going to hurt my feelings at all.

[Chojin Man]

[LoveMyMag]

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. Just had a heated discussion with my best friend about this.

I know people who are paying for college through the National Guard, Army, etc. These same people are crying now that they have been called up for active duty! I was told by one such person, "I didn't join the army to fight a war. I joined so I can pay for school." Huh? It blows my mind! Did they really join the army thinking there wasn't a chance that they would fight? Did they think the governemt was giving them all that money for FREE?! Anyone who joins the service and isn't ready to answer the call of duty is living in a dream world.

Personally, ever since I was little, I've wanted to join some brance of the service. Sept. 11th sealed the deal for me. Now it's just a matter of graduating school. I've chosen the Coast Guard becuase everyday they are out there protecting our boarders, rescuing, and helping people, not just training for a fight. I think I can do the maximum amount of good with them. We shall see...

Matt

[shartley]

Originally posted by Flamebo
And completely disagree with you here. I'm all ears for these "valid reasons". There was no imminent or even implied threat from Iraq. Regardless of how he treats the people of his nation, so what? It's fascinating how dozens of other nations do the same and we manage to stay completely uninvolved, but for some reason this particular "evildoer" just had to be stopped.

Originally posted by Flamebo
I've got beliefs on both ends of the spectrum, and I'm appalled by these "party voters" spouting out "liberal" and "conservative" like they're superior. I refuse to apologize for thinking for myself rather than compromise my beliefs by labelling myself one way or the other.

I'm all for democracy and I'd like to see more of it in this country, but it's disappointing when the masses have "elected" a figurehead chimp and will stick by their choice no matter the consequences. Anyway...

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." - Thomas Paine

Chew on that for awhile.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Flamebo

And completely disagree with you here. I'm all ears for these "valid reasons". There was no imminent or even implied threat from Iraq. Regardless of how he treats the people of his nation, so what? It's fascinating how dozens of other nations do the same and we manage to stay completely uninvolved, but for some reason this particular "evildoer" just had to be stopped.

So basically we can't win by your logic then.

We intervened in Somolia to prevent massive deaths and were criticized. We did not intervene in time in Rwanda and were criticized. We intervened in Libera to save lives and that is okay.

Which is it?

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
...
We intervened in Somolia to prevent massive deaths and were criticized. ...

As I understand it, the problems in Somalia were a result of "mission creep" leading to clashes with local armed groups. If US forces had stayed within the UN authorised mission, they might have had less casualties. And thus, less PR troubles at home. The intentions were good, and I don't think anyone can fault that.

I'll shut up now. As a general rule, we Canucks don't like to think/talk about Somalia.

[Flamebo]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


So basically we can't win by your logic then.

We intervened in Somolia to prevent massive deaths and were criticized. We did not intervene in time in Rwanda and were criticized. We intervened in Libera to save lives and that is okay.

Which is it?

I'm not sure, but it's be nice to have a little consistency with these policies.

[GatoLoco]

no personal offense at all to anyone but...

Originally posted by Steelrat
I always liked Heinlein's idea of military service in Starship Troopers. The only ones allowed to vote for the govenment, and become full citizens, were those who had served in the military. If you want to be a part of society, you should be prepared to defend it.

That is possibly the worst idea I have heard thus far. That suggests that the only people who should be able to vote are those who have gone through training on how to kill, protect, and survive. That means that only a select few people with a similar mentality get to vote, spitting in the face of the constitution. Beleive me when I say this, I have utmost respect for all of the men and women who risk their lives for the protection of our country, and being thrown out into what many times is an unjust cause by the leaders of our nation (a whole different argument). However saying that anyone unwilling or unable to go through military training is a lesser person, and should have no right to vote is a horrible idea.

[GatoLoco]

Originally posted by Rooster

Yes, its called a mandate. You see, the United States of America got sick of the spineless, the weak, and the naive, and so we voted them out of power. You see if you beleive differently than the current administration, it means that you are in the minority. Your ideas and thoughts were shot down becuase they were simple and stupid. The majority of Americans will no longer be led around by the nose by the ignorant.

Its called a mandate. You lost. And you will lose again. Get used to the feeling.

Actually, more people voted for Gore than Bush, Gore won the popular vote, so you infact, are the minority

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Re: no personal offense at all to anyone but...

Originally posted by GatoLoco


That is possibly the worst idea I have heard thus far. That suggests that the only people who should be able to vote are those who have gone through training on how to kill, protect, and survive. That means that only a select few people with a similar mentality get to vote, spitting in the face of the constitution. Beleive me when I say this, I have utmost respect for all of the men and women who risk their lives for the protection of our country, and being thrown out into what many times is an unjust cause by the leaders of our nation (a whole different argument). However saying that anyone unwilling or unable to go through military training is a lesser person, and should have no right to vote is a horrible idea.

Have you read Starship Troopers? Steelrat oversimplified the idea. In Heinlein's future, in order to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or hold public office you must serve a minimum of two years of national service. Not necessarily in the military. You can opt for non-military service, but it will be something at least as dangerous as any military post. Testing arctic survival equipment, for example. Heinlein's idea is not that you must be a trained killer in order to vote, but that you must have demonstrated a willingness to put the needs of the state before your own personal safety.

It's not really a new idea. If anything, Heinlein makes reasonable allowance for populist 20th Cetury ideas by describing a non-military option. Before the nineteenth century, no one would have considered democracy without some sort of qualification for voters, usually property. And the property qualification originated in the need for citizens to be soldiers, who were expected to pay for their own weapons and armour.

To anyone who hasn't read the book, I wholeheartedly reccommend it. It is an excellent story of a young man growing up to accept responsibility. The movie only lightly deals with the main issues, and adds in a lot of Hollywood fluff.

[GatoLoco]

Re: Re: no personal offense at all to anyone but...

Originally posted by Jeffy-CanCon


Have you read Starship Troopers? Steelrat oversimplified the idea. In Heinlein's future, in order to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or hold public office you must serve a minimum of two years of national service. Not necessarily in the military. You can opt for non-military service, but it will be something at least as dangerous as any military post. Testing arctic survival equipment, for example. Heinlein's idea is not that you must be a trained killer in order to vote, but that you must have demonstrated a willingness to put the needs of the state before your own personal safety.

It's not really a new idea. If anything, Heinlein makes reasonable allowance for populist 20th Cetury ideas by describing a non-military option. Before the nineteenth century, no one would have considered democracy without some sort of qualification for voters, usually property. And the property qualification originated in the need for citizens to be soldiers, who were expected to pay for their own weapons and armour.

To anyone who hasn't read the book, I wholeheartedly reccommend it. It is an excellent story of a young man growing up to accept responsibility. The movie only lightly deals with the main issues, and adds in a lot of Hollywood fluff.

thank you for clearing that up, but Nonetheless, i dissagree with the idea that was presented

[Chojin Man]

Do they have to fight alien bugs in the book too?