Bodies of Americans dragged through the streets of Iraq!!!

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Exactly... But some of the liberals dont seem to get it they are so strung out on attacking Bush that they missed the entire picture.

Unfortunatly I've proven you wrong. I'm considered a liberal and I saw the whole picture. Fortunatly when I do research I look at both sides and draw my conclusion to the real story. As both sides have their own agenda and beliefs. So I guess I'm rare in that way and the way I was taught.

[Butterfingers]

I did say some

[PyRo]

Simply said, freedom isn't free, what Iraq is going through now will bring them freedom. I think America paid a much higher price to gain its freedom from there monarch then Iraq is paying now. Some civilans will die in the process, it is inevitable, for the most part it is the fighting style the resistance in Iraq uses that leads to the deaths of civilians.
Whats worse, killing several thousand Iraqies to give them freedom, or allowing them to be opressed and have hundreds of thousands murdered?

Would you kill one innocent person to save the entire world?


And i'm still for making those who did this die a very slow and paintfull death. Its a good thing I wasn't there, I would probably be in jail right now, and there would be a big pile of dead Iraqies after I started shooting anyone I saw encouraging this.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

Originally posted by Butterfingers


The diffrence is that historically, in the examples that you give, they were and ARE LONG TERM occupying powers... In this case in less than 100 days Iraq will have thier soverengnty...

but we will still be there. we will be there for many years to come too. just think of the military bases we have in countrys around the world. we will definetly leave a large force to "keep the peace"

Originally posted by Butterfingers


We liberated Afganastan... we did not occupy Afganistan like the Soviets did. Afganistan has thier own sovereign government now. With the exception of a few Al-Quida elements Afganastan is generally freindly to the US.

we still have a large force in afganistan

Originally posted by Butterfingers

Also dosent anybody read the surveys... Most of the Iraqi people DONT SUPPORT THE INSURGENCY...

notice how every month there seems to be more US casualties? tahts because more iraqis are getting pissed off and taking up arms. this is how it always happens, a few people start the revolt, and many join. does the american revolution ring a bell?

Originally posted by Butterfingers

There are only a small bunch of very motivated people that "just dont seem to get it"

oh they get it all right. they realise that we are raiding homes of innocent people off of false information that terrorists were there. they get that their husbands and wives and children are being caught in the crossfire every day and dieing. they get that it will take a long time before we leave.

Originally posted by Butterfingers

There would be no conflict if Israel Gave the land back to the Palestineans...

if it were only that easy. the isrealis will NOT give up their land for some palistinian scum. the palestinians wont let any dirty isrealis live in their land. its a no-win situation.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by CaptaiN_JacK


but we will still be there. we will be there for many years to come too. just think of the military bases we have in countrys around the world. we will definetly leave a large force to "keep the peace"

Yep... thats reality... unfortunately the fact fails to reinforce your point... We still have troops in germany too... And the Germans HATE US oh no! And Saudi Arabia, and Quatar, and Kuwait they are blowing us up everyday arent they...

Originally posted by CaptaiN_JacK

we still have a large force in Afganistan...

absolutely I still fail to see your point...

Originally posted by CaptaiN_JacK

notice how every month there seems to be more US casualties? tahts because more iraqis are getting pissed off and taking up arms. this is how it always happens, a few people start the revolt, and many join. does the american revolution ring a bell?

Again In the revolution the British was a "occupying" power for a long time and had no intention of giving us independence...

Well not occupying... we were a colony that was being unfairly taxed... no taxation without reperesentation was the basis for the revolutionary war. I fail to see how you can even draw a comparison between these two things...

You have a very vivid imagination...

You love to make false analogies don't you...

If you actually read the survey you will find that most of the qualms are with security... and joblesness... a reality of war...

In this case There are Saddam Loyalists and terrorists that are attacking thier own people just because they can't stand to see us win...

Originally posted by CaptaiN_JacK

oh they get it all right. they realise that we are raiding homes of innocent people off of false information that terrorists were there. they get that their husbands and wives and children are being caught in the crossfire every day and dieing. they get that it will take a long time before we leave.

That wouldent happen if there werent 30 garbage bags blowing up under leaves by the side of the road every day....

So if your definiton of "innocent people" are those that kill thier own people, try to assasinate thier own developing independent government, kill IRAQI police put there to protect them, kill missionaries, kill women that do laundry for the US government, kill basicly everybody that stands for an independent iraq and leave bombs by the side of the road for some kid to play with." Not to mention blowing up the UN Headquaters in Iraq...

AND discrace every religion in the world by mutilating bodies yeah I guess you are right... these people are "innocent"

You seem to very conveneintly ignore the fact that the reason we do raids is to catch criminals... hmm...

Why don't you try to pull some of that stuff in the USA the FBI will RAID your house and you will be arrested... its called law enforcement.

So you are saying that we should dissolve the FBI and let criminals run free because they dont like the cops?

Thats a better analogy...



You seem ignore my points very efficently... Read a few of my previous points... I dont need to repeat myself like a robot especially if you are going to ignore valid points just because they don't mesh with your views...

Obviously you have a one way biased view of things...

Originally posted by CaptaiN_JacK

if it were only that easy. the isrealis will NOT give up their land for some palistinian scum. the palestinians wont let any dirty isrealis live in their land. its a no-win situation.

never said it was gonna happen... My point was to illustrate that if the palestineans had an independent government like we plan to give iraq they probably wouldent have problems...

Jeez you just dont get it do you?

EDIT needed to bold a few things

[Mateo]

One word: 0wN3d!!!!

[Mateo]

Originally posted by Rooster
It was nice of the moron patrol to show up. My day is incomplete without smacking some liberal scum.

"Iraqi Civilians killed in Iraq: Max-10649 Min-8799"

Iraqis killed by Sadam: 1,000,000 give or take. The Iraqis don't like the US becuase we are superior. We bent their stupid little military over and whipped them like it didn't even exist. That is a direct shot at Muslim pride. Their God didn't save them. The Arabs were once the height of civilization after the fall of the great western empires, but times change. They just havn't realized just how backwards they are yet.

Amen. Just like the Palestinians don't realize. "Hey, you lost a war, stop complaining, stop sending suicide bombers, get out, we won, if you be good we won't trample over the land we GAVE you." Muslim pride, it will cause a great tragedy if they don't realize where, when, and who they are. Also who else is on the block we like to call the West.

[Automag88]

Ok, so we liberated a country from a dictator. Now what are we still doing there as a military? Don't say we're still there because there are many suicide bombings and things like that. Because the U.S. military is the target of those bombings. I don't see how our military being there is helping a rebuilding process. Ya know what would help a rebuilding process? Maybe, US representatives without guns. And i'm with Captain_Jack all the way, you called him biased, it sounds like your biased to the exact opposite of him.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Conversely how would you feel if your leader persecuted and GASSED your family.

How would you feel if you didnt have a future to look forward to because your leader just happened to hate your type of people.

How would you feel if your sister or your mom could be pulled off the streets and brutally RAPED at the will of some cronies.

How would you feel if your father and brothers were KILLED for saying that you disliked your fearless leader.

The list goes on...

Yes, I would feel horribly. There are plenty of Iraqis who hate Saddam for this. My point is, America coming in also destroyed other people's lives. Them being enraged with our country is perfectly understandable.

I have reasons for thinking the way that I do and I think we have all made a better point of it that you have...

Hardly.

We are all not as ignorant as you make us out to me so get off your high horse It irritates me when you suggest our attitudes are products of mass media.

I never said a single thing about your attitudes being products of the mass media.

Also search gallup and iraqis in this forum... you will be surprised how many actually "hate" us. You will find a gallup poll link...

Yep 70 percent of Iraqis WANT US TO STAY... Its a damn shame that we have more support there than we do here.

Yes, I'm sure they went around and polled all of the hostile areas as well.

Welcome to reality...

That's hardly reality.

[Doobie]

OK...here I go. Most of you on BOTH sides of this argument are only getting your "facts" and info through the media. Left AND Right.
MOST Iraqis are glad we are there. When stuff went south, they came to us for help. MOST of the attacks are no longer directed at Americans but at Iraqis supporting the Coalition. The "News worthy"' attacks are ones against Americans. Anyone remember the count of blown-up Police stations? Probably not.
Remember when we were getting blown up everyday, all over Iraq. That dropped off A LOT! There has been a steady DECLINE in atacks against U.S. forces and that IS A FACT.
We still need to be there, because we created this mess and if we just cut and run, the place would be anarchy. I would not want to do that to those people. I couldn't do it to the kids, having looked in their eyes myself and seen the look of hope in them because I was standing before them. We have a plan to give their country back, let it work.
What the MOB did to those men was a sin, in any religion, INCLUDING Islam. Mutilating the dead is a sin in Islam. These freaks were not good Muslims.
The "Bomb it flat" mentality will not work either. If you think that will solve things, you need a head check.

Oh and...

oh they get it all right. they realise that we are raiding homes of innocent people off of false information that terrorists were there. they get that their husbands and wives and children are being caught in the crossfire every day and dieing. they get that it will take a long time before we leave

Get a clue. We raid houses off of good info and recon. OCCASIONALY it is wrong. Heck, our police in the U.S. sometimes get bad info. I would rather get it wrong once in a while than not try at all, only to let the terrorist hide anywhere they want! I think I went on 2 dry raids the whole time I was there! And those people thanked us for trying!
And don't fool yourself into thinking there are bullets flying down every street, hitting innocent civilians. It happens, but not to the blown up proportions you alluded to. Once again...it happens here, too. People in glass houses, etc..
There is so much more I could write about, but unless you have been there, developed friendships with the people and fought the jerks that are causing this, I don't think you would understand.

My bottom line is, question ALL you information and where it is coming from. Every bit of it. And to the families of the Black Water personel, my condolances, and there WILL be retribution...just watch.

[cphilip]

Excellent way to end this one. Good job Doobie.