IAMS food company

[HoppysMag]

I am not against eating animals, I know that killing is natural and always will occur. What I am against is mainly the inhumane treatment of animals. I am also against the raising of animals for food, because I beleive they should at least have a chance for survival as they do when being hunted. But, even though humans can be properly sustained without consuming meat, I know that will never happen, and would be satisfied if animals were treated humanely (free range instead of crowded, dirty conditions, no abuse of animals, and more humane slaughter).

[PyRo]

Pigs wern't made for eating?
Yes they were. No one whines when a bear grabs a fish from a stream. Why is it so differant if I eat a pig?

[GA Devil]

I personally am against any cruelty to animals that are domesticated as pets. Dogs and cats mainly. I think those people who do harm them like IAMs is accused of should be put thru the same treatment. Maybe the article is false but it sure pissed me off seeing the vid and reading the story.

[DSandifer]

I think instead of animals for testing they should use prisoners on death row. just my 2 cents

[cphilip]

I think instead of animals for testing they should use prisoners on death row. just my 2 cents

If your going to do research to develop formulations of diets for Dogs and Cats.... ya gotta use Dogs and Cats. Thats what IAM's does... makes dog and cat foods. Mainly specialty diets for ailing animals is there specialty. They and Science Diet are the leaders in specialty theraputic animal diets and such. Unfortunately you gotta apply it to the species. And some must die for many to live. They do foundation research. Which is basic stuff. And then from that you can apply what you learn to do non invasive research later. But you have to first establish the basics in the whole complex beast. To be able to mathmaticaly figure in the natural variations within that species. Its not a step that can be skipped as so many want to imply. It is the foundation by which all other assumptions stem.

You know these people are against pet ownership don't you? Yea. And they eqate a human life with an animal life. They consider them equal. In fact they consider your dying or your child dying to be no worse than a rat or a pig dying. They claim its the same thing.

Just try and get human subjects to allow you to use prisoners. Well historicaly we have. However distastfull, the Germans did during the 30's and early 40's. We still use a lot of that information for medicine even today. Horribly obtained but they were meticulous record keepers and tried a lot of nasty things on captive humans. I know its gross. But it happened and the information is very usefull. It's probably saved thousands if not millions of burn victims and such.

[nippinout]

I'm all for the human treatment of animals. Years ago, PETA wasn't so radical. They didn't mind people eating meat, as long as the animal was treated and slaughtered humanely. Now they have increased their agenda to promote a vegan/vegetarian diet.

Their methods for promoting their ideals are some of the most stupid techniques ever employed by a special interest group. You should not scare or gross people out to get your message across to people.

We ARE at the dominant animal on this planet. If you're out in the wild, you are open game to the wild animals. But so are they.

Just because a lifeform has intelligence or is self-aware does not give it more or less right to live. Killing a plant for consumption is no different from killing a plant for consumption. A potato has as much right to exist as a black angus. Just because an animal has feelings, or is cute and furry, we can't eat it?

Slade, we are at the top of the food chain. We can eat anything we want. We just choose not to hunt flying squirrels and wallabies.

[slade]

Who cares about pigs, cows and chickens? They are bred in most cases for food/milk. We do not breed dogs for food, same goes with cats. They are domesticated to be in familys. Have often have you seen a cow showing the emotion a dog does? Or even a cat? How many pigs cry when you come from a long trip or even come home from work or school? None.

so youre saying pigs and other animals in general do not show emotion? Suure... and i care about pigs, cows and chickens because they are a form of life capable of thought and emotion, and i have no reason not to care for them. the same reason that i would care for some person i dont know.

Slade, your views on the processing of animals are rather astute, but surely, if you have the logic to get to that point, you must agree that processing is no different in mechanism to hunting; in both instances, we are in control. In both instances, we get meat. In the end, humans will eat pig. Processing just speeds up the process.. hence the name. I respect your opinions, and agree in a small way, but in a time when resources are becoming scarce, anything that uses less and gives more is the way to go.

true processing is similar in the ways that you mentioned, but the reason i think hunting is better is that the animal is given a chance to survive. of course it is impractical for everyone to hunt with the current society and the magnitude of the human population, but theoretically it is the better option. since it is impractical for me to hunt, I do not and because i am morally opposed to raising animals for food, i am vegetarian (actually there are other reasons too). I am not trying to force you or anyone to become vegetarian, as of course that is impossible; i would prefer it, but since it is impractical, what i want is you and others to either hunt or support better conditions for animals. Oh, and I respect your views too. I am glad that you can hold a mature discussion.

But, since Rooster seems to love flaming me, im going to say that i want him to become vegetarian

Many of our domesticated food animals are not suitable for survival in the wild. They were bred, by humans, to produce more food than their wild cousins. They are our creation. If they were turned loose, they would die in a most gruesome fashion, via starvation, predation, and/or disease. That is no favor to the animals.

True, it would be impractical to release them. But, even if somehow everyone in the world went vegetarian, chickens and cows could be converted into milk/egg animals; pigs would prove to be somewhat of a problem. The whole world isnt going to go vegetarian, though, and as ive said repeatedly, I am willing to accept that and would be satisfied if they are treated more humanely.

Face it, domesticated livestock is ours to take care of and ours to eat.

so we own them and have rights to control their very existance because we raised them? I suppose in that case your parents own you; they can sell, abuse or even kill you.

"no... i dont beleive a lot of the stuff that Rooster posts. "

Awww, I hurt the little guy's feelings. Son, since your mind is still too underdeveloped in a realistic setting, I'll tell you how it is. Until you have been there and seen it with your own eyes, what you believe in is hearsay. You can eat your fruits and vegetables like the little pinko you are, I don't care. You can wear your little black shirt and your little man purse with the poorly sewn piece of cotton that says meat is murder. You can continue not to bathe on a regular basis. I don't really care.

again, you have no idea who I am.

But when you try to spread lies about people I know, when you try to judge others on the basis of faulty information processed by your under-developed brain, or when you try to call me out on something that I know, that I have lived, and you want to call me out on something you read on the internet? On a tripod site no less?

are you still talking about what I said about drugs being fed to pigs? As I said, that was in referance to only some large factories; it was a very small point anyway, I dont see why you are getting so worked up about it. If you arent refering to that, most of what I have said is hypothetical, or my personal beleifs.
But, if you can provide proof that drugs are not used at all in any factories, I will admit that you are right with that fact.

and by the way, I didnt truly mean that I dont beleive anything you post; I was simply saying that, if one wants to attack the validity of a website, I can just as easily attack the validity of what you are saying.

and how do I have a conceited beleif that i must be right? I am willing to accept what Cphil and others are saying about IAMS.

Intelligent as you are Rooster, I don't beleive you can truly be a 'genius' without accepting the faults of others.. just an off-topic comment I felt like sharing.

a true genius also wouldnt devote half of his argument to insulting the other person, and saying "youre wrong, appologize for your stupidity." Hes not a true genius, hes a true politican . By the way, i can see what you are trying to do there; you are simply attempting to aggrivate me.

Cphil - good post

Posted By Slade
I am also against the raising of animals for food, because I beleive they should at least have a chance for survival as they do when being hunted.

So the slow easily killed animals are the only ones that deserve to be eaten?

Posted By slade
I didnt reply to this thread last night at all because I saw Blade: Trinity. Fairly good movie. It was interesting how the vampires made a human factory, where they put people into a chemical induced coma and bled them. Everyone seemed so shocked, so sad, but it seemed pretty humane to me.

How come it is okay for a human factory to feed vampires but not an animal factory to feed humans?

its better than them being killed regardless. I beleive they should have a chance for survival. And I was simply using Blade as an analogy, to put everything into perspective; people generally see your view better if you relate it to them or their species.

Hoppysmag - my response to your post is mostly contained in what i have said above, so for the sake of brevity i will not repeat it. But one thing i wanted to add, the human population will grow because of a larger food supply, but hunger problems are due to a larger population. The more food there is, the larger the population will grow, and the more overpopulation there will be.

pyro - its not different, a bear may eat a fish but the fish wasnt made for the purpose of feeding the bear. The fish was made to survive.

DSandifer - actually, i have to agree.

Cphil - i think he meant testing human products. the thing is, though, no one wants to be the guy that has to put shampoo on the mass murderer... now thats a sucky job.

Nippinout - hmm, id like to see that PETA come back. but anyway, read what i said... we are at the top of A food chain. there are other animals at the top of others. a food chain is a series of animals that eats the next one; we do not eat tigers and they do not eat us so we are not in the same food chain. tigers could eat us, but they often dont.

[HoppysMag]

Hoppysmag - my response to your post is mostly contained in what i have said above, so for the sake of brevity i will not repeat it. But one thing i wanted to add, the human population will grow because of a larger food supply, but hunger problems are due to a larger population. The more food there is, the larger the population will grow, and the more overpopulation there will be.

.

the less food there is, the more hunger there will be, and more deaths.oviously no one wants there to be an over population, but to keep the people fed, we dont have the room, or the time to do all free range ect. sorry man, i understand your feelings on this, i agree animals shouldnt have to go through any unnesassary pain, but we need to be fed.

[Rooster]

"again, you have no idea who I am."

I don't need to know you, nor do I care to. To me, you area liberal statistic, a stain on the face of humanity, which will be wiped away in due time. Nothing more.

[slade]

"again, you have no idea who I am."

I don't need to know you, nor do I care to. To me, you area liberal statistic, a stain on the face of humanity, which will be wiped away in due time. Nothing more.

I know you dont want to know me; that is fairly clear. I dont want to know you either, and I dont, but I dont pretend to know you and paint a stereotypical picture of you based on the very limited information i have.

Ive tried to be nice throughtout this, and you obviously havent. to me, you are a statistic of the people I dont know who are ***holes to me over the internet, while i try to conduct myself civily. current count: 2.

and considering the way in which you conduct yourself, i would say you are the stain upon humanity.

now **** off.

[slade]

hoppysmag - the less food the more hunger and death, but the more extra food, the more the population will grow and thus the less food per animal, causing starvation.

[Gr0dy]

thats so sad... i love dogs expecially my 2 dogs but i don't agree with peta

My uncle has this shirt that has a fish on the front of it and says

P.eople E.at T.asty A.nimals :)

[HoppysMag]

hoppysmag - the less food the more hunger and death, but the more extra food, the more the population will grow and thus the less food per animal, causing starvation.

a vicious cycle.

[Destructo6]

so we own them and have rights to control their very existance because we raised them? I suppose in that case your parents own you; they can sell, abuse or even kill you.

How did that conclusion follow from anything I posted?

p -> q
p
---------------
r

is basically what you just posted.

How many Guernsey cows do you see or would expect to see in the wild? None. They were engineered by our human ancestors for a specific purpose: in this case, to produce lots of good milk. Other breeds were created to produce a lot of good meat. Created for the purpose.

[PyRo]

You want to give animals all the same rights as humans?
You want to put a mouse in jail for breaking into your home?
I can just see the little mouse court room and the little mouse jail now.