Pics from SW: Episode III

[kosmo]

Damn, I missed the preview cuz I was getting popcorn. And robots was absolutely terrible. Never let the woman choose the date movie, unless you have confirmed nude scenes.

[Vex]

oh and Anakin IS the chosen one. if you dont believe me watch the trailer OB1 says it in it.

Just because everyone THINKS that Anakin is the Chosen One, does not mean that he is. Anakin doesn't bring balance to the Force--he totally upsets it. He ultimately brings about the supremecy of the Dark Side. If he had never broken the Jedi Code and married Padme, then Luke and Leia would never have been born, therefore, Vader would have continued wreaking havoc upon the galaxy. Do you think that Vader would have betrayed the Emperor had it not been for his son believing in him? Do you think that Vader would have ever let his defenses down for anyone other than his own offspring? And even at that, Vader tried to kill Luke--but Luke ultimately toppled the most powerful Jedi ever, bringing about the downfall of the Sith, and restoring balance to the Force. Once again, not balance as in equal sides of Light vs. Dark side, but equal in that the Force is not ripping itself apart in two directions.

There is no passion, only serenity...

[MaChu]

I feel like such a geek,

Here is why Anakin is the chosen one. The prophecy said one will come to bring balance to the force. The jedi thought that meant totally eliminating the dark aspect, but what they failed to realize is that he was born to eliminate nearly all the jedi's except a few. The force was almost all light with only a few sith lords and apprentices compared to the huge amounts of jedis. He balanced them out by killing nearly all of them making the sith and jedis back to a small amount, equaling out the force. Which will probably bring the plot lines of 7, 8 and 9 if they choose so, the reappearance of more sith.

[Vex]

I feel like such a geek,

Here is why Anakin is the chosen one. The prophecy said one will come to bring balance to the force. The jedi thought that meant totally eliminating the dark aspect, but what they failed to realize is that he was born to eliminate nearly all the jedi's except a few. The force was almost all light with only a few sith lords and apprentices compared to the huge amounts of jedis.

Don't forget, there can ONLY be two Sith at any one time: Master and Apprentice. So with that logic, then there are still more Jedi than Sith. It has been stated that Vader doesn't kill all of the Jedi. So the Force would still be out of balance...

He balanced them out by killing nearly all of them making the sith and jedis back to a small amount, equaling out the force. Which will probably bring the plot lines of 7, 8 and 9 if they choose so, the reappearance of more sith.

Sorry, but that's not it. The Force is still tugging itself in two directions (more towards the Dark side), being out of balance. Even though there are an equal amount of Jedi (because we only ever see Obi-Wan and Yoda) and Sith, it doesn't mean the Force is in balance.

[adam_61550]

I've never actually heard or read the definition of "balance of the force" and I don't think too many people have. Theres a lot of theories out there on what the "balance of the force" actually is, the most popular being that both sides of the Force have to have an equal amount of Jedi. I don't think that's it. The dark side is much more powerful with 2 Sith than the light is with countless Jedi. My take on it is to acheive a balance in the Force, there must not be 2 sides clashing. Hence when Vader and the Emperor are killed a balance in the Force comes about. Of course with that reasoning, if the Sith destroyed every last light side Jedi, then that would be a balance in the Force as well. And that doesnt sound right...somebody slap me.

[WingMan13]

Gah! I can't let this one go....

He ultimately brings about the supremecy of the Dark Side.

Yes, and then he ultimatley destroys it and goes back to the light side before he dies, fulfilling what the chosen one was born to do, bringing balance.

If he had never broken the Jedi Code and married Padme, then Luke and Leia would never have been born, therefore, Vader would have continued wreaking havoc upon the galaxy.

It was all a part of his destiny. The force created him to bring balance. The force needed someone who would break all the norms. Having Luke and Leia broke the Jedi code but also placed a seed that would help him redeem himself at the end.

Do you think that Vader would have betrayed the Emperor had it not been for his son believing in him?

Yes, it is the Sith way of thinking to achieve the highest amount of power. They are always trying to topple each other which is why the rule was made that there can only be 2 at a time.

Do you think that Vader would have ever let his defenses down for anyone other than his own offspring?.

Probably not, but again it was a part of his destiny. His compasion for his son is what brought him back to the light side.

Luke ultimately toppled the most powerful Jedi ever, bringing about the downfall of the Sith, and restoring balance to the Force.

Yes, Luke defeated Vader but he did not kill him. Lets not forget, it was Vader that destroyed the Emperor, not Luke. Luke was helpless against the force lightning and would have died and achieved nothing if it wasnt for Vader turning back to the light side.

I love the fact that these movies have so much that we can go back and forth on. I'm trying to find interviews with Lucas to see if he states clearly wether Anakin is the chosen one. If he hasnt then there may be something up his sleeve ALA Empire Strikes Back: NO, I am your father! I hope theres a similar jaw dropper in the next episode. Theres even a theory that the Emporer is Anakins father sounds too far fetched for me though

[SlartyBartFast]

How about this definition of "balance":

>> Neither side is in control.

If you look at the Jedi's control over the republic, they are pretty "evil". I mean they're totalitarian, undemocratic, and are prepared to put down (an initially peaceful) separation from with brute force.

Anyone else notice the parallels between Jedi doctrine and religious fundamentalism? Doesn't matter what the senate/populace wants, we'll set things "right" in the background.

(Interestingly the Jedi temple looks like a Muslim temple with it four outer towers and inner temple building).

The balance is probably brought about by Luke as the various civilisations can develop free of the influence of either the light or dark side (until the new jeds in their fervour reimpose their will on the galaxy).

The balace between opposing forces was also similar in B5.

[SCpoloRicker]

NNNNNNEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDDSSSSSSS

/obligatory
//man, I just finally got around to watching the preview. Sweet, sweet, sweet.

[WingMan13]

How about this definition of "balance":

>> Neither side is in control.

If you look at the Jedi's control over the republic, they are pretty "evil". I mean they're totalitarian, undemocratic, and are prepared to put down (an initially peaceful) separation from with brute force.

Anyone else notice the parallels between Jedi doctrine and religious fundamentalism? Doesn't matter what the senate/populace wants, we'll set things "right" in the background.

(Interestingly the Jedi temple looks like a Muslim temple with it four outer towers and inner temple building).

The balance is probably brought about by Luke as the various civilisations can develop free of the influence of either the light or dark side (until the new jeds in their fervour reimpose their will on the galaxy).

The balace between opposing forces was also similar in B5.

Thats a very Sith way of thinking

[SlartyBartFast]

Thats a very Sith way of thinking

Well, the B5 conclusion was that NEITHER side was "good". Each was meddlesome and bad for the civilisations they were playing with. While the shadows represented 'chaos' and the Vorlons represent 'order', neither represented the best interest of the those whose lives they were destroying and attempting to control.

The parallels with StarWars are pretty strong, the mesage just isn't as clear.

Guess I've been outed as a philisophical SF geek.

[SCpoloRicker]

Guess I've been outed as a philisophical SF geek.

*raises hand*

[Vex]

You bring up some very good points--you are a worthy adversary!

It was all a part of his destiny. The force created him to bring balance. The force needed someone who would break all the norms. Having Luke and Leia broke the Jedi code but also placed a seed that would help him redeem himself at the end.

You point is well taken.

Yes, it is the Sith way of thinking to achieve the highest amount of power. They are always trying to topple each other which is why the rule was made that there can only be 2 at a time.

Correct. However, Vader would not have overthrown the Emperor--for he was the most loyal of servants. The thought of succession occured to him only after he realized how much potential his son held and that the Emperor had a vision of being destroyed by Luke. If Vader had planned on overthrowing the Emperor, well he had 20+ years to do it. Surely, he would have done it by the time of ANH, if he was going to at all.

Probably not, but again it was a part of his destiny. His compasion for his son is what brought him back to the light side.

And had it not been for his son's very strong belief that there was still good in him, then Vader would not have gone back to the light. Vader did not believe that there was any good left in him. He even says so in ROTJ.

Yes, Luke defeated Vader but he did not kill him. Lets not forget, it was Vader that destroyed the Emperor, not Luke. Luke was helpless against the force lightning and would have died and achieved nothing if it wasnt for Vader turning back to the light side.

You are correct, but don't forget that the Emperor foresaw Luke destroying him, not Vader. Vader tried to convince Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor and rule with him as father and son. Luke couldn't defeat the Emperor without Vader's help and he knew it. Luke needed to convince his father that Anakin Skywalker still existed. When Vader destroyed Palpatine, both prophecies came true: the Emperor's self-fulfilling prophecy that Luke would destroy him; and the Jedi prophecy. Again, had Luke not pulled the "love thy father" card, Vader would NEVER have betrayed the Emperor--unless his own offspring was willing to become his apprentice--which he wasn't. Luke was ready to die before he succumbed to the Dark Side (as seen in ESB.)
It is Luke who turns Vader back to the Light Side, therefore fulfilling the Jedi prophecy, thereby becoming the Chosen One.

I love the fact that these movies have so much that we can go back and forth on. I'm trying to find interviews with Lucas to see if he states clearly wether Anakin is the chosen one. If he hasnt then there may be something up his sleeve ALA Empire Strikes Back: NO, I am your father!

I agree with you on this one!

I hope theres a similar jaw dropper in the next episode.

There may be, but I wouldn't count on it, seeing as we already know the rest of the story.

Theres even a theory that the Emporer is Anakins father sounds too far fetched for me though

I've not heard this one, but it's extremely feeble, seeing as how Palpatine is from Naboo and Anakin is from Tattooine. Plus, Shmi would have told Qui-Gon that she had relations with someone. It is highly unlikely that we will find this out in Ep. 3

[Vex]

How about this definition of "balance":

>> Neither side is in control.

If you look at the Jedi's control over the republic, they are pretty "evil". I mean they're totalitarian, undemocratic, and are prepared to put down (an initially peaceful) separation from with brute force.

Anyone else notice the parallels between Jedi doctrine and religious fundamentalism? Doesn't matter what the senate/populace wants, we'll set things "right" in the background.

(Interestingly the Jedi temple looks like a Muslim temple with it four outer towers and inner temple building).

The balance is probably brought about by Luke as the various civilisations can develop free of the influence of either the light or dark side (until the new jeds in their fervour reimpose their will on the galaxy).

The balace between opposing forces was also similar in B5.

The Jedi don't have "control" over the Repubic--they are merely servants. They are at the beckon call of the Chancellor and the Senate, to be used for the benefit and betterment of the Republic. Sometimes this means that they are to use violent methods, but that is only because they are met with resistance.
As far as a peacful separation, that never happened. The Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo was far from peaceful. Non-violent doesn't necessarily mean peaceful. They were forcing their ways onto a peaceful people (even though they themselves were being controlled) The Jedi became involved at first only as negotiators at the request of Chancellor Vallorum, and as a non-violent, but very persuasive, solution.

As far as the similarities between the Jedi Order and organized religion--yes they are there. The Jedi Order IS an organized religion. However, they do not spread their philosophy and beliefs upon others, as they are limited to only Force-sensitive individuals--which excludes about 98% of the general population in the galaxy.
Again, the Jedi are merely peace-keepers for the Republic--even though they don't want to be. They would prefer to not get involved with the Senate's affairs.

[Vex]

I've never actually heard or read the definition of "balance of the force" and I don't think too many people have. Theres a lot of theories out there on what the "balance of the force" actually is, the most popular being that both sides of the Force have to have an equal amount of Jedi. I don't think that's it. The dark side is much more powerful with 2 Sith than the light is with countless Jedi. My take on it is to acheive a balance in the Force, there must not be 2 sides clashing. Hence when Vader and the Emperor are killed a balance in the Force comes about. Of course with that reasoning, if the Sith destroyed every last light side Jedi, then that would be a balance in the Force as well. And that doesnt sound right...somebody slap me.

No slap needed!
If every Jedi had been destroyed, and it were only the Sith in existence, then yes, the Force would be balanced (because you wouldn't have the good vs. evil conflict). But since Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke and Leia were all alive, then the Force was being pulled in two different directions.

[SlartyBartFast]

The Jedi don't have "control" over the Repubic--they are merely servants. They are at the beckon call of the Chancellor and the Senate, to be used for the benefit and betterment of the Republic. Sometimes this means that they are to use violent methods, ....

Sure.

Much like the Kremlin was at the "beck and call" of the Supreme Soviet.

The Jedi were always going around "convincing" senate members and member planets about the "right way" to vote/behave. Who was amking those decisions? Jedi Council.