We Have A Pope!

[tropical_fishy]

2. Not all things were done away with, jesus himself stated that the ten commandments for example were in full effect. The un-christian laws and the traditions based uopn those laws are what was discarded in that respect. Much of it is also relative to the nature of God and Christ, God does not change and neither does Christ so certain things of that nature were kept, this is all through centuries of "revelation" of course, something I went into further depth with in an earlyer post.

So who decides what's "unchristian"? Christianity was FOUNDED by Judaism. Anything that is Jewish is FUNDAMENTALLY CHRISTIAN.

Priests are put in place to lead their followers to God. They are not put in place to police their followers. They provide a moral ground for people to function on. I've never been in a church or met a priest who has said, "you must do _________," unless it's something about accepting Jesus into your heart or following the Bible. I've heard priests CONDEMN actions, but not really condone them.

A priest (or pope) is there to lead the faith/congregation, not to lead individual people's lives.

[Jakedubbleya]

So who decides what's "unchristian"? Christianity was FOUNDED by Judaism. Anything that is Jewish is FUNDAMENTALLY CHRISTIAN.

Priests are put in place to lead their followers to God. They are not put in place to police their followers. They provide a moral ground for people to function on. I've never been in a church or met a priest who has said, "you must do _________," unless it's something about accepting Jesus into your heart or following the Bible. I've heard priests CONDEMN actions, but not really condone them.

A priest (or pope) is there to lead the faith/congregation, not to lead individual people's lives.

Whatever, sure, why not, thats exactly what i meant

Im exausted of this conversation, its leading nowhere, it was stupid for me to begin and i apologize.

Id recommend some literature but im relatively certain nobody would read it, if thats not the case feel free to pm me.

Dont expect any more posts from me on this thread, i hope exchanges between me, slarty and others didnt effect how we will treat each other on the other threads

Have fun with it guys.

[octane2079]

Though I know slarty will prolly prove me wrong for saying this, but isn't this whole argument about the future of the Catholic Church so its a moot point in comparing the Catholic Church with anything else because the only current unknown factor is the Pope and it is his views who we should be debating?

Also about the Pope's infallibility: He only can make dogmatic statements when he officially speaks from the chair of peter which very rarely happens. Most of the actual decision making is left up to the individual bishop's in the diocese. And unless they're decisions go against dogma then they are given a respectable amount of independence.

[TheDuelist]

Sorry but it all seems like sheep to the slaughter to me. Good luck finding out whats the truth on the other side. Let me know how it worked out for you. The best representation of Christianity was Jesus standing on a hill administering to his flock, not some overly ornate marle and gold structure "dedicated" to a God who supposedly tells his "people" not to be materialistic. When you read the real bible come see me. I would be interested to know what versions everyone here reads? King James? Just a thought.

I have nothing against those of religion and I find the study of Jesus and the church an interesting history lesson. My problem comes when the so called "philosophy" of said religion gets interpreted by man with all of his faults and fallibilities.

Either way, go with God if that is your choice...perhaps you are correct. Me. I'll sit on the hill and see what happens.

[spantol]

TheDuelist: Ever heard the Story of Hank? Any time organized religion comes up, I think of it.

[SlartyBartFast]

Literally, i answered this question, try reading instead of (your favorite word) trolling.

I'm lazy, quote yourself and point out my stupidity. Please.

Anyone else who thinks you've already answered, point it out please?

This is why I don't go to church. Lots of high handed quotes, no expalination, zero justification, no room to discuss, and if you question anything, all you get is "Go start from the beginning and read everything again."

And that makes me a troll how?

Because it's a very strange Atheist that would be so respectful of religion, let alone exclusively supportive of one Christianity, and so disrespectful of others.

Only a devout catholic would make derogatory claims even though thats uncatholic, you sir are a genius.

I know it's not derogatory in your eyes. Because to the prejudiced, the bigoted, the indoctrinated, or the exlusionary mind saying what you beleive to be the truth is never considered derogatory.

I've only seen such high handed double standards of praising one, claiming neutrality, and insulting another, while backing out of responsibility by saying it's a groups thoughts and not necesarily your own from the devout and other indoctrinated members of groups/cults/sects.

Ive met holy men, and a smirk is something id be rather surprised to see on their faces, dont insult something you obviously know nothing about.

The "smirk" is all in attitude. I've had lengthy discussions with ministers of a number of faiths. The most open and frank being with the Unitarians. But whether it's a Rabi or a Priest, or an Imam, if you don't swallow thier beleif whole and stop questioning you quickly get the cold shoulder and the patronising "You jus tdon't understand my son."

It's been fun.

[Lohman446]

The "smirk" is all in attitude. I've had lengthy discussions with ministers of a number of faiths. The most open and frank being with the Unitarians. But whether it's a Rabi or a Priest, or an Imam, if you don't swallow thier beleif whole and stop questioning you quickly get the cold shoulder and the patronising "You jus tdon't understand my son."

Reality: a main cornerstone of religion is faith... faith in things that cannot be proven through logical argument. The problem becomes when people don't admit this and try to continue to argue it. Faith... not logic. Trying to make a great logical argument when faith is involved, without admitting the role of faith in your beleifs, just makes you look .

[SlartyBartFast]

Reality: a main cornerstone of religion is faith... faith in things that cannot be proven through logical argument. The problem becomes when people don't admit this and try to continue to argue it. Faith... not logic. Trying to make a great logical argument when faith is involved, without admitting the role of faith in your beleifs, just makes you look .

And I couldn't agree more.

But in admiting that FAITH is the cornerstone only the strongest can then reveal what their PERSONAL faith is based on.

Then you have the next HUMONGOUS leap that only those who are truly comfortable with themselves, their beleifs, and their place in the universe can make. The acceptance that different faiths and beliefs are just as valid. Equal, but different.

As evidenced in my exchage in this thread, few are willing to explain why one Faith is more valid than another. Those that try are doomed because their arguments only how weight if a double standard is imposed and the exact same arguments are somehow invalid in support of the other faith.

Just considering the Christian and Muslim faiths, it will truly be an age of enlightenment when both reach the same level of openess as each other. In history, each has swung between extremes. The Muslim world was advanced and developed as Christians struggled in teh dark ages. Christians had the Renaissance while Muslims had passed own dark ages. The Muslim world is now changing and once again approaching openess and slowly embracing a world view. Christians/Catholics are teetering on the brink of a new dark ages.

(what else can you call the drive to conservatism, and the fight to banish science from schools?)

Human advancement will arrive when religions talk TO each other and not DOWN to each other.

While the British chilrren's story The Chronicles of Narnia still had the nasty notion of eastern religion (read muslim) prayingto an Evil deity, it did at least have a worhty central message. Prayers for good are always heard by God. Regardless of the deity the prayer is sent to. Prayers for bad or evil are always heard by the devil.

The story perhaps erred in limiting the plot to two deities on good and one evil. It would have interesting if the story could have shown THREE dieties and concluded that both good Gods were but one and the same. But, remains a powerful message and explains how evil can be accomplished in the name of good.

(I'm really amazed this thread progressed without getting closed. Congratulations to all.)

God Speed, Best Wishes.

[Jack_Dubious]

SlartyBartFast.....

FLAWLESS VICTORY!





On a serious note tho.... No matter what God we pray to, be it Jehovah, Allah, or L. Ron Hubbard...I think we call all agree upon some universal truths.
What ever all knowing omnipotent force created the universe, definately created women to be subservient to men. Am I right or what, guys??? Cmon..cant I get an Amen?



JDub

[matt-o]

All along as I was watching TV I told my mom "Hey I betcha this guy was an ex Nazi and this is his plane for world domination." Turns out when they were giving his background info they said he was in Hitlers Youth. Lol, I laughed so hard!

yeah i saw that he had those creepy recessed eyes with the dark rings and before i even knew he was german i thought he looked like a nazi, they give some bullcrap story about him deserting but i respect the ones that stuck with their service more than the ones that bailed. also nostradamus predicted that this pope would be the devil and im starting to beleive that with the way hes gonna alienate people.

they should picked the black guy IMO

catholicism was made to be the way it is for the purpose of controlling the people. it should be obvious that if there is a god no human being could possibly comprehend it and therefore all religions are inherently wrong except for the ones that allow for changes. this is my only beef with catholicism.