I guess Ford really screwed up.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Unions killed Ford.....and most other major manufacturers that have out-sourced.

Prove me wrong.

I think unions, and overly-generous contracts are a big part of it, but not the only factor.

When the Big Three started to lose ground to imported cars in the late 1970's it was attributed to both purchase price (Japanese had lower wages and a more flexible workforce as well as a design cycle that lowered tooling costs) and fuel efficiency/operating cost (again a factor, with Ford's reliance on SUVs and pick-ups).

Ford's Model-T was originally marketed as a basic reliable car that everyone could afford, and it built the company. Same thing later on with VW, and the Japanese and Korean companies who moved into our market in the 1970's and 1980's. No North American automaker now produces a car with the same philosophy.

[Lohman446]

I think unions, and overly-generous contracts are a big part of it, but not the only factor.

When the Big Three started to lose ground to imported cars in the late 1970's it was attributed to both purchase price (Japanese had lower wages and a more flexible workforce as well as a design cycle that lowered tooling costs) and fuel efficiency/operating cost (again a factor, with Ford's reliance on SUVs and pick-ups).

Ford's Model-T was originally marketed as a basic reliable car that everyone could afford, and it built the company. Same thing later on with VW, and the Japanese and Korean companies who moved into our market in the 1970's and 1980's. No North American automaker now produces a car with the same philosophy.

There was a point where supply and demand where roughly equal. When the unions made demands the big three could cater to them and just tack the extra onto the end price. As long as the big three were all coping with roughly the same demands from the union then they all had the same add on to the price in the end. They could scale supply and price to meet demand and remain profitable.

Enter longer lasting vehicles, more people not looking for new, and global competitors without that union, among other factors and the ability to supply greatly exceeds demand. Overtime the union demands have become nearly a cinder block tied around the big three as they try to swim in this new market.

[Cow hunter]

dont know how many read the 'times but front page, first section "FORD CUTS 30K JOBS" sooner than you expected huh?

[BeaverEater]

well my mechanical thoughts about cars virtually comes from my dad. he is mechanical engineer who designs heavy machinery. the reason his old company went out of business was because they built stuff that just lasts and never needed repairs. so they virtually just ran out of business. they could use the same concepts in cars but the thing is, people dont wanna spend a lot for their cars cause frankly a lot of people just want something new every now and then. unless you get in an accident, you could have a car that really doesnt need too much maintence.

and oh ya, its not just ford thats screwing up. gm had the same problems less than a year ago and same with dodge a few years back.

[billybob_81067]

Cummins L6 engines are considered to need major overhaul in the 250-300K mark by most knowledgeable people. That being said I have seen one in particular that had near 500K on it. The truck was very new and ran daily out of state...

Many Internationals run a powerstroke engine as well and some of those have some tremendous miles on them.

I wouldn't say that the international trucks run a powerstroke engine, rather that the powerstroke pickups run an international engine. (to be technically correct)

But yes I have to agree that they last forever! My powerstroke has 230k miles on it so far and it's still capable of making 23 psi of boost on stock injectors.

I absolutely love Ford trucks and pickups!

To date we have 7 ford trucks (f-600 to f-750) and 11 ford pickups (rangers to F-250's)

We also have 2 dodge pickups, 2 GM feedtrucks, and 2 International trucks and one international pickup.

We only have 3 that are beyond repair: an early 60's F-600 that used to be a feedtruck and is completely worn out from it's years of running around, the second one is a 72 F-250 that my sister wrecked and was running when we parked it, but we've robbed all the parts off of it for other projects. The third one is an old P.O.S. International dump truck that we bought at an auction for the bed and hoist.

Lesson here kids is if you take care of your stuff it will take care of you! Oh and Ford Rocks!

[Lohman446]

well my mechanical thoughts about cars virtually comes from my dad. he is mechanical engineer who designs heavy machinery. the reason his old company went out of business was because they built stuff that just lasts and never needed repairs. so they virtually just ran out of business. they could use the same concepts in cars but the thing is, people dont wanna spend a lot for their cars cause frankly a lot of people just want something new every now and then. unless you get in an accident, you could have a car that really doesnt need too much maintence.

and oh ya, its not just ford thats screwing up. gm had the same problems less than a year ago and same with dodge a few years back.

Yeh, ok, for enough money I could build something that would last longer. Sure, but who's going to pay a million dollars for a car. As far as maintenance... ehh you're going to need maintenanc,e maybe a little less but not much less than like Volvo's factory scheduled maintenance. The fact is, I think your observations are more from a politically influenced point of view than a technical one.

[Soopa Villain17]

i like ford , my grandparents have a 91 ford van with 217k on it and still running like a champ , grandfather has a 01 ranger and the only thing he has done is change the oil and replace the struts , and i have an 89 t-bird with 107k and its still goin perfect . ford rules

[BeaverEater]

it wouldnt cost a million dollars to get a car to run for a lot longer, im only talking about maybe another 10k or so if that. but every car company its trying to build the cheapest car and it shows.

[Lohman446]

it wouldnt cost a million dollars to get a car to run for a lot longer, im only talking about maybe another 10k or so if that. but every car company its trying to build the cheapest car and it shows.

What is your opinion that a car runs to today? 10K more on cars that should all reach or exceed 200K is not much of a gain.

[Mer]

it wouldnt cost a million dollars to get a car to run for a lot longer, im only talking about maybe another 10k or so if that. but every car company its trying to build the cheapest car and it shows.

Not even,

2006 Ford Taurus SEL msrp $23,665.00

2006 Honda Accord EX msrp $24,700.00

The Honda is easily going to last almost twice as long as the Ford, mechanically and in fit and finish.

[Lohman446]

Not even,

2006 Ford Taurus SEL msrp $23,665.00

2006 Honda Accord EX msrp $24,700.00

The Honda is easily going to last almost twice as long as the Ford, mechanically and in fit and finish.

Based on? I really want to see this. Are you going to take into consideration cost of maintenance? Theres a study that says this? Or your just saying...

[Mer]

Based on my experience owning similar class American and Foreign cars, nothing more. I guess my study is personal experience.

[Lohman446]

Based on my experience owning similar class American and Foreign cars, nothing more. I guess my study is personal experience.

I'd make a slightly different argument, and a part of it would be that foreign car owners tend to follow factory recommended maintenance better. I work on a lot of cars, and frankly I do not see the massive quality difference between the better foreign and better American cars.

[Mer]

I can respect that.

I guess personal preference has a lot to do with it too.

Take Care,

Eric

[BeaverEater]

you expect cars to last 200k plus miles with little maintence your crazy. most vehicles start having problems at around 80k miles, atleast most american. i mean heck my buddy spent 50k on a duramax diesel and that thing went back to the shop about 50 times in the first year for problems. and ya, if your looking for an efficient and reliable vehicle, id honestly go for a jap car. 10k more on a vehicles cost could easily add a lot of years to the vehicle, just people dont really want to spend that. the only reason i would buy a domestic car would be if i would buy it for a hot rod, or if i would buy a truck. if i wanted a reliable daily driver, i would get a civic or something like it.