I guess Ford really screwed up.

[Lohman446]

But here is some stupidity from both Ford and and the UAE!
FORD_UAE Story

So Ford has banned employees from parking any non-Ford vehicle in the employee parking lot! So your employer now controls what you buy as private consumer? I guess this is a first offense for Ford in this matter but not the UAE! They have alredy banned their members from driving foreign vehicles! Someone please step in and tell me where the unions are deriving this authority and how they are protecting the little guy? They are nothing more than a gangster style protection racket.

How the union has the authority to control what Ford allows on there parking lot is anyone's guess. As to Ford, basically there best parking, closest to the plant, is controlled for image purposes. There is another lot across the street that anyone can park in. I don't think it was that unreasonable of an idea.

[Muzikman]

Getting a job at GM / Chrysler / Ford was considered a gold mine for a semi-skilled trade. Face it, many of the tasks on the line are repetetive, require little thought, and are simple enough. Obviously not all of them, and no doubt some very very smart people do them, but many of the jobs were not a "skilled" trade. That being said, the salaries did/do seem a tad bit excessive when compared to the salaries of skill trades in the same areas of the country. 65K in California, probably not a lot, in St Louis, probably pretty good money.

This sounds way too fimilar to a native Pittsburgher growing up in the 80's. Only replace the Auto industry with the steel industry.

[hardr0ck68]

I don't think Ford kills too many employees...

Ford is not the only Union job; my point was broder than just the ford situation; as many have already made blanket statements in this thread i figured i would toss mine in as well. Many factorys did kill and seriously injure workers before unions; maybe now is payback as unions cripple the auto industry.

This is not n American phenom, it is akin to every society where humans are involved. It is a human flaw, not an American flaw. And NO union is going to pay you a buck to join, it will be quite the opposite! You will pay them for the priveledge if being at their mercy and continue to do so every payday...don't complain either or they will make sure you never work.

Damn them, BIG TIMBER! No timber for war!

I would have fun arguing with you about the corruption in the timber industry. For example they are allowed (just as oil companys are) to claim any resource they pull out of their land as a "loss" because thet timber isnt there to be logged out in futhure years. I bet all companys wish they could claim a loss on every unit shipped.

[ShooterJM]

If you are not planning on owning your own house, sending your kids to college, or taking a yearly vacation then yes, thats overpriced.

I mean America doesnt need the working middle class right? Let's blame the American worker for all of Big Business' inability to compete sucessfully.

Hey, if a person is worth $65k a year to a company, more power to them. I could care less if it's being a lawyer, surgeon, or trash collector. What I don't agree with is the fact that unions, generally speaking, keep wages articficially high. Even then, I really don't care. I just don't like to hear people compain about getting laid off when their union contributed to the fiscal problems. If the market price for a factory worker is $65k then what are they complaining about, just get another job at $65k.

[Lohman446]

If you are not planning on owning your own house, sending your kids to college, or taking a yearly vacation then yes, thats overpriced.

I mean America doesnt need the working middle class right? Let's blame the American worker for all of Big Business' inability to compete sucessfully.

I make a decent living in relatively important job to the community (at least I think so ). Im in a Union, I am productive (like the vast majority of my counterparts), and I want to see my company be sucessful.

My union wages will someday allow my children to go to college and hopefully have more choices in what they want to do in the working world than I did. It gives my coworkers and their families more opportunities for a brighter future as well.

Ehh... Its not the job of your employer to make sure you have enough money to do what you want to. I make less than 65K, I own my own house, put money away every month, take a yearly vacation with my family, and see no problem putting my child through college when the time comes.

The fact of the matter is, why should someone have a 65K job when someone else is more than happy and qualified to do the same job for 40K. As it is our government protects the working class and unskilled labor (there being a difference) with minimum wage laws. Unions protect employees from the normal business practices (competetive bidding) that the company has to deal with.

What about the hundreds of thousands the unions pay there executives? What about the campaign contributions you may not agree with using your money? Isn't this really wasteful. Would you not be better represented by someone like you, a member of the union rather than a leader? I expect you understand the difference.

Inflate wages... it seems to be working so well for GM / Ford and the other companies that use assembly line production style. Of course, perhaps theres a reason when new plants are built in America they are built in right to work states.

[BigEvil]

Hey, if a person is worth $65k a year to a company, more power to them. I could care less if it's being a lawyer, surgeon, or trash collector. What I don't agree with is the fact that unions, generally speaking, keep wages articficially high. Even then, I really don't care. I just don't like to hear people compain about getting laid off when their union contributed to the fiscal problems. If the market price for a factory worker is $65k then what are they complaining about, just get another job at $65k.

I really dont think there is only one place to point blame for this mess.

However, unions in general (big unions, not your local Walmart or Shoprite union) have demands that are far out of the realm of reality. Look in NY at the Transit Union. I forget the specifics, but those crooks were fighting tooth and nail to keep their lucrative pension plan. While the rest of the world (the free market) have no where near the same quality of pension, job security, amount of overtime, salary, or medical benefits.

Think about this, say you owned a NYC subway station. It was yours, and you as a business owner were required to staff it. What do you think the market price for a token booth clerk is in the private sector? $10/hr tops with minimum bennies. Yet plastered all over the NY papers issome schmuck token booth clerk who makes $75k a year (+ bennies + full Pension) sleeping on the job.

Then the MTA cries every year how they need to raise fairs.

Seriously, how much should an assembly line worker make in the private sector? No offense to any hard working people, but come on. Should it really cost a company over $90k total-per-person compensation for basically someone to turn wrenches.


Then everyone complains when all of these companies ship operations to Mexico.

[Lohman446]

If businesses get together to set a price for there products or services its illegal and price fixing. If a union does it its...

[Army]

If businesses get together to set a price for there products or services its illegal and price fixing. If a union does it its...

Heh Heh! Yup!

[BigEvil]

About 10 minutes after I wrote my last post in this thread, I get into my 04 Explorer SPort Trac, pull the parking brake handle, and it disintigrates in my hand. I miss it back in the day when Ford trucks were tough.

[lather]

Ehh... Its not the job of your employer to make sure you have enough money to do what you want to. I make less than 65K, I own my own house, put money away every month, take a yearly vacation with my family, and see no problem putting my child through college when the time comes.

The fact of the matter is, why should someone have a 65K job when someone else is more than happy and qualified to do the same job for 40K. As it is our government protects the working class and unskilled labor (there being a difference) with minimum wage laws. Unions protect employees from the normal business practices (competetive bidding) that the company has to deal with.

What about the hundreds of thousands the unions pay there executives? What about the campaign contributions you may not agree with using your money? Isn't this really wasteful. Would you not be better represented by someone like you, a member of the union rather than a leader? I expect you understand the difference.

Inflate wages... it seems to be working so well for GM / Ford and the other companies that use assembly line production style. Of course, perhaps theres a reason when new plants are built in America they are built in right to work states.

Using "its okay if someone is willing to do your job for cheaper" argument sounds good until your job gets outsourced to India. Really I do hope that never happens to you personally but if it did, Im willing to believe that you'd change your perspective real quick.

Median price for a 1 family house here in Hawaii is about $489,000. I bet its a bit less than that where you live. If you can manage owning a modest house on less than 65k a year here --congratulations!, you must be single with no kids and subsisting on sunflower seeds and ice cubes.

Minimum wage? Have you heard of the term "working poor"? That term describes those that earn minimum wage. I hate the term "working poor", If someone who refuses welfare, and wants to contribute to society by being gainfully employed, shouldnt be "poor" period.

I hope you felt similiar outrage at companies like Enron and Worldcomm, for all but ruining the lives of 7000 of its workers all in the name of corporate greed, as you do for Ford AUW, but somehow I doubt it.

[Recon by Fire]

I would have fun arguing with you about the corruption in the timber industry. For example they are allowed (just as oil companys are) to claim any resource they pull out of their land as a "loss" because thet timber isnt there to be logged out in futhure years. I bet all companys wish they could claim a loss on every unit shipped.

I know what you mean...like the Big Farming industry! Those rich farmers getting apid not to grow crops....many of our Hollywood and media elitist are among them.

[wimag]

Using "its okay if someone is willing to do your job for cheaper" argument sounds good until your job gets outsourced to India. Really I do hope that never happens to you personally but if it did, Im willing to believe that you'd change your perspective real quick.

Median price for a 1 family house here in Hawaii is about $489,000. I bet its a bit less than that where you live. If you can manage owning a modest house on less than 65k a year here --congratulations!, you must be single with no kids and subsisting on sunflower seeds and ice cubes.

Minimum wage? Have you heard of the term "working poor"? That term describes those that earn minimum wage. I hate the term "working poor", If someone who refuses welfare, and wants to contribute to society by being gainfully employed, shouldnt be "poor" period.

I hope you felt similiar outrage at companies like Enron and Worldcomm, for all but ruining the lives of 7000 of its workers all in the name of corporate greed, as you do for Ford AUW, but somehow I doubt it.

how long you been a union steward. you got the speech down.

[SCpoloRicker]

Using "its okay if someone is willing to do your job for cheaper" argument sounds good until your job gets outsourced to India. Really I do hope that never happens to you personally but if it did, Im willing to believe that you'd change your perspective real quick.

Inevitable. And efficient.

Median price for a 1 family house here in Hawaii is about $489,000. I bet its a bit less than that where you live. If you can manage owning a modest house on less than 65k a year here --congratulations!, you must be single with no kids and subsisting on sunflower seeds and ice cubes.

Actually, its more. And, yes, single, no kids. rAmen occasionaly.

Minimum wage? Have you heard of the term "working poor"? That term describes those that earn minimum wage. I hate the term "working poor", If someone who refuses welfare, and wants to contribute to society by being gainfully employed, shouldnt be "poor" period.

Who guarantees it? And, to the point, no auto union employee is close to minimum wage.

I hope you felt similiar outrage at companies like Enron and Worldcomm, for all but ruining the lives of 7000 of its workers all in the name of corporate greed, as you do for Ford AUW, but somehow I doubt it.

Actually, I think that those situations were ethically worse. And had far more widespread effects.

/cheers, not trying to pick a fight

[lather]

how long you been a union steward. you got the speech down.

How long have you been a giant of industry? You got the sarcasm down.

[lather]

Inevitable. And efficient.



Actually, its more. And, yes, single, no kids. rAmen occasionaly.



Who guarantees it? And, to the point, no auto union employee is close to minimum wage.



Actually, I think that those situations were ethically worse. And had far more widespread effects.

/cheers, not trying to pick a fight

Nah its all good