Va Tech shootings

[paintballfiend]

First off, I wouldn't trust the cops to defend my life. Second, I wouldn't trust my classmates with a gun.
All we should do is live in fear until the Apocolyps comes.

[Gitaroo Man]

If its concealed how will you know?

If you for some reason spot someone not concealing ask him/her. they will tell you. But your not going to be able to control what others do. They are carrying around you now. And perhaps some of them are illegal. Your best defense is to also be able to defend yourself.

One things for sure, you worrying about it or being irrational about it has not prevented it from happening. You can only protect yourself. You cannot control other people. Always will be that way.

So if I do as you wish I will just outlaw it. No carry in classrooms. Feel safer? Well.... thats the way it was today.. in Virginia...exactly as you like it... feel safer now?

I said if I spotted it for some reason or another. How am I supposed to know if it's legal or not? I'm not about to go up to someone with a gun (that I don't know if they should have one or not) and ask them "Hey, why can I see that?".

[wjr]

If its concealed how will you know?

If you for some reason spot someone not concealing ask him/her. they will tell you. But your not going to be able to control what others do. They are carrying around you now. And perhaps some of them are illegal. Your best defense is to also be able to defend yourself.

One things for sure, you worrying about it or being irrational about it has not prevented it from happening. You can only protect yourself. You cannot control other people. Always will be that way.

So if I do as you wish I will just outlaw it. No carry in classrooms. Feel safer? Well.... thats the way it was today.. in Virginia...exactly as you like it... feel safer now?

Have you ever thought there are other ways to prevent this kind of thing then having everyone carry a gun?

Make it harder and do more background checks on people buying guns maybe? Put more money and effort into stopping the illegal sales of guns?

I don't want to have to live in a world where to feel safe I have to carry a gun.

Also, I don't trust the average citizen to make life and death decisions in a crime situation. This particular one is pretty black and white. That's not the case for all crimes though.

[Ole Unka Phil]

This you need to watch. Up until today this was the worst mass shooting in US history.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6006926775914305210&q=%22gun+control%22&hl=en

You owe it to her to listen to her entire testimony before Congress. And its very appropriate for today.

[Ole Unka Phil]

Have you ever thought there are other ways to prevent this kind of thing then having everyone carry a gun?

Make it harder and do more background checks on people buying guns maybe? Put more money and effort into stopping the illegal sales of guns?

I don't want to have to live in a world where to feel safe I have to carry a gun.

Also, I don't trust the average citizen to make life and death decisions in a crime situation. This particular one is pretty black and white. That's not the case for all crimes though.

If it was so simple then why is it not working. They already require a NICS check on all purchases. Most guns used in crimes are not obtained legaly. Criminals don't obey laws.

You already do... your just not admitting it.

I don't trust YOU to protect me. Or make decisions about if I can protect myself and how I do it.

Why do you keep confusing Public Safety functions with self defense? Your mixing the two together.

Let me make it clear. I don't intend to carry a gun to protect you. It's for me. If its obvious I see you getting robbed at gun point I am going the other way. I will call the police when I am clear of the situation. but your on your own. I am not and will not be your protector. Thats your responsibilty. Not mine. If its you getting killed thats your problem. I hate to be blunt but its "self protection"... not my problem if its you.

Now in this case, if I were to have to kill someone to protect myself and it, inadvertently saves your ***, great. But its not my primary goal. If I hear shots in the hall. I am taking cover. Your on your own out there. He comes in the room with gun drawn and I will take him out to protect myself. Not you. Not anyone else. You would then be just lucky it went down that way.

[BobTheCow]

This thread is despicable. How you all managed to turn a national tragedy in to a political debate is beyond comprehension.

Trying to reach friends across the state all day was hard.
Consoling friends who had lost loved ones was near impossible.
Finding out a friend and a classmate was killed tore me the **** apart.

This thread shouldn't be about gun control, or lack thereof. Make your own goddamn thread. Today was bigger than that, and I'm ashamed of what it's turned in to here.

[neppo1345]

Well, just found out that one of my friends lost one of her friends from highschool.

I didn't know her, but this hit home for me. It was a senseless act that could have happened at ANY College campus; could have been UC, OSU, or any other number of schools where I have close friends. I walk across campus and sit in class without ever thinking something like this could happen. I mean, I was even considering VA tech as a college choice. It could have been me.

I'm just worried about some nut job copycat now.

BobTheCow: I agree.

You have my heartfealt condolences, God Bless.

-Tim

[lather]

This thread is despicable. How you all managed to turn a national tragedy in to a political debate is beyond comprehension.

Trying to reach friends across the state all day was hard.
Consoling friends who had lost loved ones was near impossible.
Finding out a friend and a classmate was killed tore me the **** apart.

This thread shouldn't be about gun control, or lack thereof. Make your own goddamn thread. Today was bigger than that, and I'm ashamed of what it's turned in to here.

QFT

I agree, using a terrible tragedy in order to promote an agenda disgusts me.

At least show some respect and try to show some sympathy and sensitivity towards victims and their families.

Jumping right in and using this sad day as an example to prove that your particular political worldview is the "correct" one is sickening.


Bob the Cow -- my condolences

[bornl33t]

ok, that does it!
I'm here to tell you that respect is given to whom it's due. And you are NOT worthy of respect. My heartfelt sympathies to those who have suffered loss but calling a healthy debate disrespectful is absurd.

That being said...worldview? wtf? Agenda? pretty sure gun control is all over abc, cnn,msnbc AND fox. Who's promoting an agenda? You guys are nutjobs.

[Lohman446]

Does having a debate negate sympathy? That seems a knee jerk reaction at best.

[lather]

ok, that does it!
I'm here to tell you that respect is given to whom it's due. And you are NOT worthy of respect. My heartfelt sympathies to those who have suffered loss but calling a healthy debate disrespectful is absurd.

That being said...worldview? wtf? Agenda? pretty sure gun control is all over abc, cnn,msnbc AND fox. Who's promoting an agenda? You guys are nutjobs.

What do you mean by "you guys"? Im talking about BOTH SIDES-- gun control and right to CCW's folks using this tragedy to further their agendas.

[AirAssault]

Its what the person intent on evil considers a "Target Rich Environment". They are all disarmed and therefore denied thier right to protect themselves. If... you wish to do it with Law Enforement then your going to have to have one LE for ever student. Good luck with that. It is each persons right to protect him/her self. Those who can undergo the scrutiny and background check and training to obtain a Concealed Weapons Permit are not "ready to settle things with a gun at a moments notice" as you wish to imply. They are the LEAST likely to do so. But to put them at a disadvantage then you are directly responsible for the result. You might as well have loaded that guys gun for him. Because YOU made it all possible for him to kill 33 rather than one or two. Its not anyones right to deny a person his ability to meet force with equal force. If you can find a way to keep maniacs off the street then I am listening. However its not going to happen. So your not going to be able to assure me that YOU can provide protection.

Not everyone eligable will chose to carry. But it would have only taken one responsible person in the right place to have minimized this.



Gun laws only work on those who obey laws. And I am not afriad of the law obiding. You seem to be. You seem to assume that law obiding citizens are to be denied the right to self protection.

A-fing-men. I am pretty left wing on most issue, but do have my CCW in Colorado. I DO carry pretty much every where I go, Including schools. (which per state of Colorado I am not allowed to do.) I'll be damned if some jerk off is going to kill me, my family or any one else for that matter if I can do something about it.
Springfield Arms 1911 Loaded Champion light weight .45 = $780.00
Hand made Milt Sparks IWB holster = $120.00
Knowing that I can stop some dirtbag from killing me, my family or others = Priceless

Every one that says guns are the problem here, wake the freak up. If you are legally able to carry in your state, ffs take the course and arm yourself.

I agree with wjr....I wouldn't want a gun in my classroom either. Carry concealed all you want I don't care, but I wouldn't be comfortable one with me in a classroom and don't think it would help the environment much (I'm in college for reference...).

I still think that even if someone had a gun on them that wasn't an officer they would not have stepped up.

If the person is properly carrying, you will not know he/she is so you wont need to worry about it. Poeple that go through what you have to do to carry don't do it just to have it. They do it so they can protect themselves and others.

Have you ever thought there are other ways to prevent this kind of thing then having everyone carry a gun?

Make it harder and do more background checks on people buying guns maybe? Put more money and effort into stopping the illegal sales of guns?

I don't want to have to live in a world where to feel safe I have to carry a gun.

Also, I don't trust the average citizen to make life and death decisions in a crime situation. This particular one is pretty black and white. That's not the case for all crimes though.

Ummmm, they are called criminals for a reason. They wont get checked to carry a gun. You can buy guns from people/places that don't do backround checks. Again, that's why they are called CRIMINALS. The average citizen doesn't have to make life or death decisions in crime situations. Those that take the time and effort to be able to carry, are not average citizens. They went above and beyond to take on a greater responsibility to be able to carry that fire arm. To be able to protect themselves and others in situations such as this one. Lets say 10% of the students in that building had weapons, you really think 30 poeple would be dead now?

[Ole Unka Phil]

The thread is partialy appropriately debating how to perhaps prevent such an incident in the future. All options are on the table i believe. That would be a natural reaction to all this. People are scared and want to figure out how to keep it from happening again. I wouldn't condem people for that. The time to plan for another is never too soon. There is at least one more nut case out there wanting to top this one. Someone wanting infamy. Someone wanting to copy cat this. Out of millions of people there is going to be one or two more... plus terrorists as well wanting the same thing.

My first reactions yesterday were, disbelief, hope, sadness then I was outraged. Then I wanted to start immediately preparing so it never happens again... at least to minimize that possibility anyway. I feel a sense of urgency in that regaurd... because there is little time to plan. I want us to dissect this incident and use it to save others. Least it not be they died for nothing.

[Aggravated Assault]

What do you mean by "you guys"? Im talking about BOTH SIDES-- gun control and right to CCW's folks using this tragedy to further their agendas.

Both sides think they have the answer. I don't think that someone whos' on the other side of the fence in this issue is going "whoopie!" what a great chance to push my views. Nor, someone who feels like I do.

I think people just feel terrible and don't want to ever see something like this again.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I think part of the answer is for people to finaly realize that its impossible for someone else to protect you all the time. That you are responsible for your own safety most of the time.

Then go from there.

Now... there are options such as being aware and recognizing things are amiss, extracating yourself from situations which make you vulnerable and avoiding places and situations which put you in danger. Thats something.

In order to do that you have to think ahead about what those might be and where those might be. You have to have first realized that you need to think about it and then do so. To remain blissfully ignorant is the danger.